What are your thoughts about Raffles / Razzes

cgilmo · Apr 2, 2014

A Razz is your basic raffle.

Seller lists a card and says 10 spots at $2 each (example)

10 people pay $2 each

card is randomed off among the 10 people.

What are your thoughts about this method of selling cards?

CatdaddysCards · Apr 2, 2014

Other than sellers looking for big profits, they don't bother me.

phillyfan0417 · Apr 2, 2014

the high end ones are fascinating

Musial Collector · Apr 2, 2014

They dont bother me one bit.
Opening wax is a gamble, this to me really isnt all that different.

Gwynn545 · Apr 2, 2014

They seem unfair...I mean, in your example, I'd only have a 10% chance @ $2. If I use Ebay, I have a 100% chance @ $40. Plus, I use the FCB link to Ebay to give $.002 back to the website! It's a no-brainer! Us people with an endless supply of money do not have time for small %'s.

ballerskrip · Apr 2, 2014

Razzes are the single thing that can/might bring down the groupbreaking world. Paypal is doing everything they can to shut down razzes, raffles, these type of sites, etc. Mainly because it most are run with gift payments and paypal isn't getting their cut. This was a discussion in 2 hour group breaker seminar/discussion at the Industry Summit. The lawyer in the room stated that razzes/raffles are 100% illegal and could/will contribute to group breaks being shut down completely. Many view Group breaks as some what of a gray area, where as raffles/razzes are completely black and white. Anyways, I don't want to try and get overly detailed because obviously this isn't my expertise. Long story short, the entire room of 50 or so people all agreed that Razzes/Raffles could be a major detriment to our industry.

A_Pharis · Apr 2, 2014

Isn't the problem with razzes that not everyone gets something? Call them whatever - but they are raffles, and that's a very touchy thing, legally, isn't it?
Pretty much why Andrew sends pens to break participants that don't get hits. If you're paying $2, then I doubt there's wiggle room to send people small freebies for participating.

You can say 'Oh, no one will care," but all it takes is one person to get pissed off and try to do something about it.

http://www.ask.com/question/are-online-raffles-legal

AmishDave · Apr 2, 2014

Love seeing it, since I've been watching this stuff since I got involved on Youtube 4 years ago.

Austin · Apr 2, 2014

Raffles are illegal in some states, like here in Hawaii, which treats it as gambling and a lottery, which is also illegal here.
In some other states, a non-profit can hold a raffle, but must receive a permit first.

The difference between opening packs and raffles or gambling, is that you receive something in return opening packs.

cgilmo · Apr 2, 2014

poll added

cgilmo · Apr 2, 2014

In Georgia, they are illegal unless done by a non profit. This website is incorporated in GA, so that's the rules I use.

Fandruw25 · Apr 2, 2014

I don't care for them. To me, it's not much different than the grab bags at card shows or the lottery. I know a few people like this stuff, but I can't understand putting money up and then not getting anything. Box breaks, yes. Raffles, no.

byronscott4ever · Apr 2, 2014

Like team box breaks, you pay for something and might do well or not, doesn't appeal to me

A_Pharis · Apr 2, 2014

The poll options are a little skewed. I think they border illegal, but I don't find them immoral. I also don't care for them, but I am not ravenously against them.

Austin · Apr 2, 2014

A_Pharis said:
The poll options are a little skewed. I think they border illegal, but I don't find them immoral. I also don't care for them, but I am not ravenously against them.

I agree. They're illegal in my state, but I can't vote for illegal because it also says immoral, which I don't really think they are. Card raffles can be very sketchy and questionable, but I have no religious or moral views against them.
So I voted that I don't really care about them.

Illegal is a fact in some states. Immoral is a personal opinion.
They should be separate poll choices because they're not related.

cgilmo · Apr 2, 2014

should have said illegal or immoral

jbhofmann · Apr 2, 2014

They move cards that's for sure.

That being said I feel like there's a clear divide amongst some guys on breakers.tv

The legit breakers seem to have a disdain for the razzers.

Secondly razzers have absolutely no risk and are making sometimes 10% on each card, that is one thing I don't think jives. I have no problem with the razzer taking a free spot, but straight up 10% is a joke. A top notch razzer could pull in $100/hour if the room is buying high end cards.

DeliciousBacon · Apr 2, 2014

Stuff like this lives in a particularly dark and sleazy part of our hobby, the same place hot pack sellers and patch fakers live.

cgilmo · Apr 3, 2014

Seems pretty degenerate

nappyd · Apr 3, 2014

byronscott4ever said:
Like team box breaks, you pay for something and might do well or not, doesn't appeal to me

Kind of prefer hit drafts from boxes myself, at least for higher end stuff.

Otherwise you're at the mercy of topps or panini overloading a box/boxes/case with two or three teams taking up most of the hits, and then everyone basically just subsidized two guys getting Yankees and Diamondbacks cards, for example.

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What are your thoughts about Raffles / Razzes

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