For Resellers & Distributors... Could Ordering this way work?

This is mainly for resellers and/or distributors...

Right now we have to pre-order a product up to 6 months in advance, with just a sell sheet...
We have no recourse if the manufacturers f*ck up or changes a product. They already have our order.. If a change is made, Can you say I don't want this product once you order it? and continue buying from said source


In my opinion, the only way for products to be good, would be to change the way the products are ordered....This way, will be a great way to improve whats in the products...
If you had a completed checklist with sell sheet when ordering, you can make a informed decision whether to buy it or not because you have all the info you need.
(And I am talking about the $80 and up boxes, Where the auto/relics are not a bonus.. For example, They promote high end rookie autos and you get a Choo Freeman plain white relic in a Triple Threads product).


1. Manufacture makes the cards w/out redemptions, printed, packed and ready to ship.

(I think if they did this, there would not be a need for redemption as if you don't have it when printing, you leave them out) Do they add redemptions because they dont have it ready, or they dont want to use them all as they expire afterwards.
2. Send checklist & sell sheet of completed products to dealers/distributors..
3. Direct Dealers/Distributors order (or not) based on that info.

4. Ship product the following week...

Because manufacturers would be the ones eating the product if it didn't sell well, I believe that would increase value in the products and products would not be over produced.
They would be forced to make winning products or they lose out...


Look how the 2012 Topps Heritage High set was sold... Limited to 1000, Sold Online only, you saw the checklist before you ordered it, and it was a success... sold out in a few hours....
2013 Topps Heritage High Set was limited to ???, Sold online only, You saw the checklist before you ordered it, and it showed some autos will be redemptions and it took weeks before it sold out...
2014 Topps Heritage High Set wasn't limited, wasn't online, had to pre-order before we saw the checklist... Or you could wait and order it later. I see it selling for 63.00 a set, way below cost...


So guess for me, Not to pre-order any high end product and if it's good when its out after seeing checklist, buy it, if not let it go...

Sorry for the long read but It probably will never change for everyone, but it will for me...
What do you guys think?

I assume the mfgs want you to pre order so they can get an idea of how much product to produce.

Be glad you're not buying cars, they have to be ordered and paid for by dealerships 9-10 months in advance.

Sell me your Jay Bruce cards!

fordman said:

I assume the mfgs want you to pre order so they can get an idea of how much product to produce.

Be glad you're not buying cars, they have to be ordered and paid for by dealerships 9-10 months in advance.

Sell me your Jay Bruce cards!

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I used this exact example to a friend about that...
with cars you know what you are getting...
You order cars that are loaded for one price and plain jane cars at another price...
You don't order fully loaded cars and end up with getting cars with standard features...

See how it worked out for Topps with the mini exclusives. They had to sell at $18 a box to sell it out.
They saw how this product sold and wonder if they will sell this again next year. When they sell out to distributors and resellers, it doesn't matter to them how crappy the product is because it's out of their hands.



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I work in the grocery industry. Seasonal candy is ordered about 8 months out, holiday GM 10+ months for overseas. Limited production goods will always require long lead times & final output will always be based on what was ordered only, just the way it is. It's a business reality that you can't spend capitol on something that won't sell for nearly year without some type of guarantee of sales in the form of preorders.

bigunitcards said:

I work in the grocery industry. Seasonal candy is ordered about 8 months out, holiday GM 10+ months for overseas. Limited production goods will always require long lead times & final output will always be based on what was ordered only, just the way it is. It's a business reality that you can't spend capitol on something that won't sell for nearly year without some type of guarantee of sales in the form of preorders.

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But when you preorder candy, do you know what you are getting? Or do they just send you whatever they want.. When you order baseball cards, you have no idea what is in the product to determine if you should get it or not. 100 scrub autos and 3 nice autos that are SP'ed.
I would not care when to order as long as I see a complete checklist that won't change. We base our preorders on guesses. Which is wrong. Look how many crop products came out this year. If you saw the checklist for the high end products, I bet 90% of the sellers would not order it. That's what I would like... no bait and switch which seems to be the norm for manufacturers now adays.

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There is only one answer, don't pre-order. Cut the manufacturers guaranteed cash........Cash is King

I know MANY folks who spend $250,000 a year +++ on wax who have cut ALL 2015 Pre-orders.

ballerskrip said:

There is only one answer, don't pre-order. Cut the manufacturers guaranteed cash........Cash is King

I know MANY folks who spend $250,000 a year +++ on wax who have cut ALL 2015 Pre-orders.

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Holy Crap!!!!




But this is true. Pre-orders rule the day now. If pre-orders fall off a cliff, things will be forced to change.


I don't see that happening, but I think it's worth thinking about.

theacox said:

Holy Crap!!!!




But this is true. Pre-orders rule the day now. If pre-orders fall off a cliff, things will be forced to change.


I don't see that happening, but I think it's worth thinking about.

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When 29 out of 30 products tank within a week of release, why waste the money? Especially on Topps products.

The other way to look at it though IMO if preorders drop , what happens to their orders ? Do they actually scrap them if % sales aren't good ? Do they make a great product so when it's released people want to but it ? Or do they not put $ into the product , because they didn't bring in upfront cash , and they make it even worse than what they were thinking of doing originally ?

The best course is to make the best product you can , offer it at a fair price , provide an upfront CL and have a smooth B2C experience

Ryan

RStadlerASU22 said:

The other way to look at it though IMO if preorders drop , what happens to their orders ? Do they actually scrap them if % sales aren't good ? Do they make a great product so when it's released people want to but it ? Or do they not put $ into the product , because they didn't bring in upfront cash , and they make it even worse than what they were thinking of doing originally ?

The best course is to make the best product you can , offer it at a fair price , provide an upfront CL and have a smooth B2C experience

Ryan

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I hear you completely. Let me ask you this;

How many Card Shops went out of business in the 4th quarter 2014? How many Group Breakers Packed up Shop in the same time period? How much max did those shops and breakers spend on wax yearly?

These silly companies dumped crappy product after crappy product on their loyal customers (distributors, breakers, and shops) who in turn got absolutely burned by them. On top of all of that, they are not intelligent enough to spread out their products as planned, and instead dump 5 new releases on the market within a 2 week span, into a market that clearly couldn't support it. And again, the products were CRAP on top of that. The manufacturers who depend on these people to keep them in business, are literally biting the hand that feeds them.

ballerskrip said:

I hear you completely. Let me ask you this;

How many Card Shops went out of business in the 4th quarter 2014? How many Group Breakers Packed up Shop in the same time period? How much max did those shops and breakers spend on wax yearly?

These silly companies dumped crappy product after crappy product on their loyal customers (distributors, breakers, and shops) who in turn got absolutely burned by them. On top of all of that, they are not intelligent enough to spread out their products as planned, and instead dump 5 new releases on the market within a 2 week span, into a market that clearly couldn't support it. And again, the products were CRAP on top of that. The manufacturers who depend on these people to keep them in business, are literally biting the hand that feeds them.

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Yeah , I'm not saying it isn't anyone but the manufactures fault. I guess my thoughts were if you don't preorder , they could play it a different way too instead of making the product better.

I'm 100% with you that spacing the products correctly would help out on many fronts.

I do not know all the language in their contracts so I am not sure what their minimum count of products need to be made. I'm not sure if they can scrap some items or not (Topps), without replacing it w another item. Panini should be able to control the amount of crap wo answering to to minimums, unless MLPA has something in effect. (This is just a baseball discussion I'm speaking on)

I also don't know their profit margins on each product. What I mean is , are the fees , acquisitions costs, etc to high at this point for them not to put out duds that may cost them less? If they upgraded all the duds would they be able to absorb the costs ?

I'm not sure what the perfect answer is , but it would be nice if there was one.

Ryan

Preordering , itself, is not the problem, preordering without knowing what you're getting is.
An "honest" complete checklist would help.
And about not preordering , I am not going to pre order anything that depends on high end autographs of utility players, to make your money back.
I get more ROI on Topps Opening Day baseball than i do on any high end product out there.
Content is what sells,
They did it with Topps Minis online, here's the checklist, it's on our website. Go order it. And it ships within days.....
They should do the same to distributors & resellers.

if it's a dud. Then they get stuck with it.

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RStadlerASU22 said:

The other way to look at it though IMO if preorders drop , what happens to their orders ? Do they actually scrap them if % sales aren't good ?

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Probably not likely to scrap them since there may be MLBP/MLBPA guaranteed number of yearly releases to meet.

I imagine the amount of product would be reduced if pre-orders are not strong since it's been said the products are made to order and that could be a good thing to limit supply so the product physically sells out at the big online retailers/LCS shelves and the cards retain a little bit more value due to not flooding the market with product.

Technically, you know what your're getting. You know you bought X amount of cases of Y product. You know Y product is sorted and randomly packaged. As with cars, TV's, computers etc, you have the chance of buying a dud. Yes, easier to claim against the dud car because of the cost of the car and there are laws with lemon cars. If you have a bad TV you just bought, usually you take it back to the store and they give you a new one and the store deals with the mfg.

Buying sports cards is like buying lottery tickets. You usually spend more than you win. You dont know what you got until you scratch off or the drawing is done.

They always have the disclaimer of "MFG does not, in any mammer, make any representations as to whether is's cards will attain any future value".

Fordman

Limited doesn't always mean good content. Look at Five Star.
I want to see the checklist that won't change, before I order the product.

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