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Opinions sought on this package job and how it was opened.

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mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,187
4,099


Here is the basic background. The envelope is 9 1/2" x 11 1/2", padded mailer (eco lite #2 ). There is no stiffener used to keep the envelope from bending and it was stamped "do not bend" by a stamp that was nearly out of ink (not very readable). The envelope contained only the paper item, which is a 6-8 page brochure that is roughly 8x10. When it was opened, a roughly 1/4" piece of the top corner of the envelope was torn away to easily open the envelope. As you can see from the pictures, the item being shipped was perfectly even with the top of the mailer, so a piece of the item was torn off as it was opened.

Your opinion please...

Is the packer to be faulted for using an envelope that was just the right size, maybe too small in some people's eyes, and no other protection was provided?

Is the recipient to be faulted for not using a letter opener or trying to peel the flap to open the package?

Do they both share some of the blame (could have been handled better all around on both sides)?
 

linuxabuser

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2011
2,364
50
1) Stupid envelope that was too small

2) Was opened like a rabid monkey ripping into a banana.
 

gamecockfanatic

Active member
Jun 17, 2009
945
25
Gamecock Country
i'd also say the blame is to be shared.....

when shipping , i always try to assume the package will be handled carelessly (by the usps) or opened quickly so i try to make sure the contents are well secured within the recessed area of the mailer....as a recipient , i have seen some horrendous jobs of packaging so to be safe , i always assume the package is very fragile or carelessly packed so i make sure i open it as carefully as possible just in case ......i just figure it's better to be safe than sorry (and it can leave me with a few extra nice odd-size mailers that can be re-used when what i'm shipping is too large for the 000's i generally buy in bulk)...


edit to add : regardless of whether the envlope was just the right size or a tad too small , i'm not crazy over the shipper's failure to use at least some rigid or semi-rigid protection...
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
I think the blame for the damage is mainly MrMopar's, although the shipper should have used rigid cardboard in the envelope, which could have prevented the envelope being ripped open.
The envelope's size is 1.5 inches larger than the brochure, which is reasonable.

But MrMopar, knowing there was a fragile paper item inside, should have carefully cut open the envelope at the seam, after making sure the contents were shifted away from the top where he was opening.

Never rip open an envelope or even a bubble mailer, as the item may have shifted or fallen out of a protector. It happened to me many years ago and I learned my lesson to always open things slowly and carefully.
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,187
4,099
I purposely left the details of who the shipper and recipient were as vague as possible to get the best and most unbiased opinions. I am a party to this transaction though, but you are making assumptions at this point. One of the biggest, besides me being the recipient, is that the recipient should know there is something fragile inside. When you buy collectibles, there will always be something fragile inside. Speaking for myself, I get multiple packages and on any given "good" day might get 4-5. I don't track who sends what, I simply open them as they come and mark off what I have received. I also get packages in a variety of shapes and sizes, some that I deem appropriate for the item being and others I don't. Not knowing what to expect in any given package, I usually try to open each one as carefully as possible. I will say that I have at least once in my package receiving career sliced through an item by using a letter opener and that should not have been my fault there, so no method is completely fool proof. Sometimes there is so much tape on an item that you actually need to put it open!

In the end, safely packaging an item for shipping and receipt is one of the most botched practices ever and I wish more people took a little more care in what they did before shipping an item.

I think the blame for the damage is mainly MrMopar's, although the shipper should have used rigid cardboard in the envelope, which could have prevented the envelope being ripped open.
The envelope's size is 1.5 inches larger than the brochure, which is reasonable.

But MrMopar, knowing there was a fragile paper item inside, should have carefully cut open the envelope at the seam, after making sure the contents were shifted away from the top where he was opening.

Never rip open an envelope or even a bubble mailer, as the item may have shifted or fallen out of a protector. It happened to me many years ago and I learned my lesson to always open things slowly and carefully.

That being said and for full disclosure, I am the recipient and I do blame myself for tearing off the corner. As soon as I saw the shreds of paper come with the mailer, my heart sunk and I was pissed at myself for not being more careful. I admittedly open most of my packages by tearing open a small part of the corner. I can say though that I don't remember ever getting a package like this where an UNPROTECTED item takes up the entire area of the mailer and I have probably received 10,000+ packages in the mail. However, I do also partially blame the seller for doing what I feel is a less than acceptable job of protecting the item. I probably won't do anything about it, as this version of the item is better than the one I previously had (other than the ripped corner now) but I would have liked to have seen the following:

1) A slightly larger envelope used * and the item sandwiched between cardboard or in a large toploder ( * had they done the last part, the existing envelope would not have worked and a larger one would have been necessary).
2) A simple "open carefully" written on the envelope would have alerted me to a potential issue. Many sellers have done this and even drawn arrows pointing towards a spot to be caution about.

All in all, I am disappointed in how people package items sent to me maybe 10% of the time. I bet I am not alone on this front. The biggest issue involves not protecting the item thoroughly within the mailer almost 100% of the time, be it no stiffeners, items loose, and now items "stuffed" into a too small mailer. Too many people thing that a mailer is the be all, end all to protecting an item with little thought to anything further. Admit it, we have all probably gotten a single card or other flat item in a padded mailer without any other protection, such as cardboard or a holder and that is never acceptable in my opinion.

Final thought. This was a free shipping item, so maybe I have no room to complain, but I'd rather pay something more for shipping, have the sender take a little more time and effort into the packaging and receive an undamaged item than to allow an excuse because I didn't pay anything and the item arrived damaged.
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,187
4,099
I will add one more thing, before anyone flames me for blaming the sender even a tiny bit...

I had not opened the package fully when I wrote the initial question. I finally opened it up all the way after I posted this and to confirm, there was nothing in the envelope to protect the brochure. It was simply crammed into a "perfectly sized" mailer, meaning the brochure was snug and had no room to move whatsoever in any direction. The envelope that was used must be a cheaper version too, because it just didn't feel substantial. Thankfully it was not bent of folded, but turns out that something "gouged" the envelope during transit and poked a slight hole with surrounding indentation through the item as well. Had I carefully opened this item and not damaged the corner myself, it still would have been damaged by poor packaging practices! A top loader or cardboard would have prevented that damage.

I have decided to let this one go, but I sure wish people would think before sending items.
 
Jun 30, 2010
726
0
As a seller the responsibility is to get your package to you safe and sound and well protected. Could the seller do a little better job in protecting? Of course; a couple of pieces of cardboard would have been effective. However, blaming him for all or partial responsibility for you ripping open the package and damaging the item that he got to you safe and sound is crazy. This one is on you. The parallel is sending you a package in a box and you deciding to open it with a box cutter and damaging item and then blaming me. It got to you safe and sound. Your mistake...
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,187
4,099
It's interesting what comes from these types of discussions. We all have different expectations and opinions and I think they are usually heavily weighed by whether we do the bulk of our dealings as a buyer or as a seller. I'll admit that as a majority buyer, I expect sellers to think about what they are doing and take every care in packaging items. I usually pay a fee for them to package my items (assumed with care). This may mean taking a little bit of extra care or going the extra mile to make sure that damage to an item is unlikely or nearly impossible. As a seller, I see the argument for bare minimum being good enough most of the time, I don't have time to baby every package, etc. In the end though good, quality sellers who care about their service will go the extra mile and average sellers won't.

Is it OK to send a card in a 8x10 padded mailer w/o any sort of protection or in a PWE as long as it doesn't get damaged? What about stuffing 10 unsleeved cards into a large top loader that is slightly too small to fit 10 cards (yet they were not damaged)? Even a single unsleeved card into a top loader w/o a team bag or top over the opening? Can you send a pin/button and a flat in the same package with little or no protection and not expect the bulky item not to damage the flat item? How about filling a priority flat rate box with cards directly with no inner box, no newspaper, no padding whatsoever? Every single one of these has happened to me numerous times. Sellers seem to think that if it arrives OK, then there was no problem and they continue their habits business as usual. Where buyers know it is just a matter of time before using one of these lame shipping methods will result in damage and misery.

Once more, I will admit that I should not have ripped the corner of the envelope in this case, but will also say that I would never expect my item to fill the entire mailer…ever. Too much room for damage. Bubble mailers alone are not enough to protect fragile flat items and not sure why people think they are.
 
Jun 30, 2010
726
0
It's interesting what comes from these types of discussions. We all have different expectations and opinions and I think they are usually heavily weighed by whether we do the bulk of our dealings as a buyer or as a seller. I'll admit that as a majority buyer, I expect sellers to think about what they are doing and take every care in packaging items. I usually pay a fee for them to package my items (assumed with care). This may mean taking a little bit of extra care or going the extra mile to make sure that damage to an item is unlikely or nearly impossible. As a seller, I see the argument for bare minimum being good enough most of the time, I don't have time to baby every package, etc. In the end though good, quality sellers who care about their service will go the extra mile and average sellers won't.

Is it OK to send a card in a 8x10 padded mailer w/o any sort of protection or in a PWE as long as it doesn't get damaged? What about stuffing 10 unsleeved cards into a large top loader that is slightly too small to fit 10 cards (yet they were not damaged)? Even a single unsleeved card into a top loader w/o a team bag or top over the opening? Can you send a pin/button and a flat in the same package with little or no protection and not expect the bulky item not to damage the flat item? How about filling a priority flat rate box with cards directly with no inner box, no newspaper, no padding whatsoever? Every single one of these has happened to me numerous times. Sellers seem to think that if it arrives OK, then there was no problem and they continue their habits business as usual. Where buyers know it is just a matter of time before using one of these lame shipping methods will result in damage and misery.

Once more, I will admit that I should not have ripped the corner of the envelope in this case, but will also say that I would never expect my item to fill the entire mailer…ever. Too much room for damage. Bubble mailers alone are not enough to protect fragile flat items and not sure why people think they are.


A seller should always take the proper steps to insure that a package ARRIVES as it should and I am very hardcore about that when I ship. If, in your case, the package arrives mangled or torn, then shame on the seller and he should be responsible and held accountable. But, even though the seller didn't; in my opinion, do what he SHOULD have done by properly inserting cardboard or something to solidify packaging, it did arrive in great shape. You goofed up by not properly opening the package correctly. Even though you have said that you cannot deflect your mistake on the shipper.
 

wallyscards

Member
Sep 13, 2009
131
0
South Dakota
I would have put it in a comic/magazine bag with backing board then put in between 2 pieces of cardboard and then in an envelope. It only adds a couple of ounces to do it right.
 

mrmopar

Member
Jan 19, 2010
6,187
4,099
You must have missed the part where I said it was still slightly damaged by a gouge that would have been avoided by packing it properly. The rip was worse though...

A seller should always take the proper steps to insure that a package ARRIVES as it should and I am very hardcore about that when I ship. If, in your case, the package arrives mangled or torn, then shame on the seller and he should be responsible and held accountable. But, even though the seller didn't; in my opinion, do what he SHOULD have done by properly inserting cardboard or something to solidify packaging, it did arrive in great shape. You goofed up by not properly opening the package correctly. Even though you have said that you cannot deflect your mistake on the shipper.
 
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