Who are the two best starting pitchers in baseball

sportscardtheory · Jun 13, 2009

After reading through the discussion about Josh Beckett, I am curious as to who everyone thinks is the best overall pitcher in the game. Please take into consideration ALL aspects of a pitcher's duties (ERA, wins, regular season, post season, etc...). Please vote for your top two.

nyyankeesfan.13722 · Jun 13, 2009

Re: Who are the best two starting pitchers in baseball

Zach Greinke should be on the list

sportscardtheory · Jun 13, 2009

Re: Who are the best two starting pitchers in baseball

nyyankeesfan.13722 said:
Zach Greinke should be on the list

He has a lot more to prove before he makes a list of this caliber.

J.O. · Jun 13, 2009

Re: Who are the best two starting pitchers in baseball

not sure how zambrano made that list. he's good, but not in that caliber imo

sportscardtheory · Jun 13, 2009

Re: Who are the best two starting pitchers in baseball

J.O. said:
not sure how zambrano made that list. he's good, but not in that caliber imo

Then don't vote for him.

Huffamaniac · Jun 13, 2009

Verlander should be on the list. Last year appears to be just anoff year for the guy.

AKA Coastal · Jun 13, 2009

Greinke and Verlander should be on the list.

kdailey4315 · Jun 13, 2009

Lincecum and Halladay.

scotty21690 · Jun 13, 2009

Doc and....

...Halladay. :lol:

ronfromfresno · Jun 13, 2009

Why over look Matt Cain?

Seiya · Jun 13, 2009

Doc and haren.

Jays_Cards · Jun 13, 2009

Honestly, no NL pitcher should be in the debate in my opinion. When comparing the quality of the lineups and the fact that the NL pitchers get to pitch against an opposing pitcher (almost an automatic out) and do not have to face the DH every day, it really is no comparison in my opinion. Also, the large majority of pitching friendly parks reside in the NL (NYM, SD, LA, ARI, etc.) As much as I like Lincy and Haren and Johan, I believe if you put them in the AL East, you would see a SIGNIFICANT change in their stats. I also believe that Peavy is the most overrated pitcher in the game. With all of that said, I voted for Halladay and Josh Beckett.

trademhigh · Jun 13, 2009

Jays_Cards said:
Honestly, no NL pitcher should be in the debate in my opinion. When comparing the quality of the lineups and the fact that the NL pitchers get to pitch against an opposing pitcher (almost an automatic out) and do not have to face the DH every day, it really is no comparison in my opinion. Also, the large majority of pitching friendly parks reside in the NL (NYM, SD, LA, ARI, etc.) As much as I like Lincy and Haren and Johan, I believe if you put them in the AL East, you would see a SIGNIFICANT change in their stats. I also believe that Peavy is the most overrated pitcher in the game. With all of that said, I voted for Halladay and Josh Beckett.

Beckett over CC? Besides wins, CC is pitching better this year.
Beckett:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
7 2 3.77 12 12 0 0 0 0 76.1 67 38 32 6 2 32 76 .231 1.30 1.24

CC:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
5 4 3.68 13 13 2 1 0 0 93.0 76 41 38 7 6 29 67 .223 1.13 0.87

Jays_Cards · Jun 13, 2009

trademhigh said:
Jays_Cards said:

Honestly, no NL pitcher should be in the debate in my opinion. When comparing the quality of the lineups and the fact that the NL pitchers get to pitch against an opposing pitcher (almost an automatic out) and do not have to face the DH every day, it really is no comparison in my opinion. Also, the large majority of pitching friendly parks reside in the NL (NYM, SD, LA, ARI, etc.) As much as I like Lincy and Haren and Johan, I believe if you put them in the AL East, you would see a SIGNIFICANT change in their stats. I also believe that Peavy is the most overrated pitcher in the game. With all of that said, I voted for Halladay and Josh Beckett.

Click to expand...

Beckett over CC? Besides wins, CC is pitching better this year.
Beckett:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
7 2 3.77 12 12 0 0 0 0 76.1 67 38 32 6 2 32 76 .231 1.30 1.24

CC:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
5 4 3.68 13 13 2 1 0 0 93.0 76 41 38 7 6 29 67 .223 1.13 0.87

The stats are almost identical, but if you look at how they perform in big games and in the playoffs, Beckett absolutely destroys CC on every level. Therefore, I put Beckett slightly ahead of CC.

trademhigh · Jun 13, 2009

Jays_Cards said:
trademhigh said:

[quote="Jays_Cards":3gc55d89]Honestly, no NL pitcher should be in the debate in my opinion. When comparing the quality of the lineups and the fact that the NL pitchers get to pitch against an opposing pitcher (almost an automatic out) and do not have to face the DH every day, it really is no comparison in my opinion. Also, the large majority of pitching friendly parks reside in the NL (NYM, SD, LA, ARI, etc.) As much as I like Lincy and Haren and Johan, I believe if you put them in the AL East, you would see a SIGNIFICANT change in their stats. I also believe that Peavy is the most overrated pitcher in the game. With all of that said, I voted for Halladay and Josh Beckett.

Click to expand...

Beckett over CC? Besides wins, CC is pitching better this year.
Beckett:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
7 2 3.77 12 12 0 0 0 0 76.1 67 38 32 6 2 32 76 .231 1.30 1.24

CC:
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB SO AVG WHIP GO/AO
5 4 3.68 13 13 2 1 0 0 93.0 76 41 38 7 6 29 67 .223 1.13 0.87

The stats are almost identical, but if you look at how they perform in big games and in the playoffs, Beckett absolutely destroys CC on every level. Therefore, I put Beckett slightly ahead of CC.[/quote:3gc55d89]
Is two games really an accurate sampling? He pitched two playoff games, won one and lost the other. He gave up 2 ER in the 1st game, and 5 in the second. The first game wasn't a bad outing. The 2nd one was horrible, but pitchers have off games.

JG

All The Hype · Jun 13, 2009

How is Verlander not even an option? He's easily the #2 choice behind Halladay.

Johan Santana 57 · Jun 13, 2009

ALL_THE_HYPE said:
How is Verlander not even an option? He's easily the #2 choice behind Halladay.

I'd beg to differ, although he should clearly at least be an option.

MTBright · Jun 13, 2009

Weaver deserves a look this year...

pujolsjunkie · Jun 13, 2009

ALL_THE_HYPE said:
How is Verlander not even an option? He's easily the #2 choice behind Halladay.

"Easily" to a ridiculous tiger homer like yourself. To most people, he isn't top five. He should be on the list though. The Beckett stuff has to slow down. Great in the postseason, but he has had exactly ONE season where he's lived up to his potential. He has been plagued by injury and ineffectiveness too often to name him one of the top two pitchers in the game. It's Halladay and Santana.

hive17 · Jun 13, 2009

Jays_Cards said:
Honestly, no NL pitcher should be in the debate in my opinion. When comparing the quality of the lineups and the fact that the NL pitchers get to pitch against an opposing pitcher (almost an automatic out) and do not have to face the DH every day, it really is no comparison in my opinion. Also, the large majority of pitching friendly parks reside in the NL (NYM, SD, LA, ARI, etc.) As much as I like Lincy and Haren and Johan, I believe if you put them in the AL East, you would see a SIGNIFICANT change in their stats. I also believe that Peavy is the most overrated pitcher in the game. With all of that said, I voted for Halladay and Josh Beckett.

conversely, AL pitchers don't HAVE to bat, so they get to hide in the dugout and rest every half-inning. NL pitchers have to do that much MORE. And just because you are pitching to a pitcher does not make it an automatic out. Jeff Suppan just went 2/2 last night. CC could hit, Zambrano can hit. And then there is the small-ball aspect of bunting and sacrificing.

I voted for Johan and CC, as they have been dominant like no one else for 5-4 years now. If I could vote for 3, Halladay would be there too; he just suffers from being "overlooked" every year, and doesn't skyline himself for some reason.

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Who are the two best starting pitchers in baseball

Who are the two best starting pitchers in baseball?

Johan Santana

Roy Halladay

Roy Oswalt

C.C. Sabathia

Jake Peavy

Brandon Webb

Josh Beckett

Carlos Zambrano

Tim Lincecum

Dan Haren

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