Question for Dodgers fans - the Pierre situation

Dodgers fans,

I'm on the east coast so I don't know if this has been addressed out there, but with the way Juan Pierre has produced at the top of the lineup, any idea what happens when Manny comes back in 2 weeks? I can't imagine sitting him after the way he's filled in, especially since he might be the best leadoff hitter in the NL right now. With that being said, who's the odd man out? I would think Ethier would sit and the OF would consist of Manny, Kemp and Pierre, but is it possible Pierre hits the bench again despite his success?

As a Mets fan, I'm just curious/jealous of a team with a surplus of OFers!!!

That'll be very interesting, I would say that Manny or Kemp could move to the IF, but their IF is very solid, and I doubt Manny could handle the IF. Maybe Kemp and Manny will pitch some just to get them in the lineup?

Torre has already said Pierre will sit. They won't bench Either or Kemp in a million years. To bad someone can't replace Russ Martin because he is really struggling.

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

Torre has already said Pierre will sit. They won't bench Either or Kemp in a million years. To bad someone can't replace Russ Martin because he is really struggling.

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I'd LOVE to see Manny catch Kershaw for a game.

YA SORRY JUAN " ILL NEVER HAVE AN ARM " PIERRE WILL HAVE TO SIT AGAIN

JEA2880 said:

Dodgers fans,

I'm on the east coast so I don't know if this has been addressed out there, but with the way Juan Pierre has produced at the top of the lineup, any idea what happens when Manny comes back in 2 weeks? I can't imagine sitting him after the way he's filled in, especially since he might be the best leadoff hitter in the NL right now. With that being said, who's the odd man out? I would think Ethier would sit and the OF would consist of Manny, Kemp and Pierre, but is it possible Pierre hits the bench again despite his success?

As a Mets fan, I'm just curious/jealous of a team with a surplus of OFers!!!

Click to expand...

Juan has already began his swoon back into Juan Pierreville. He had an amazing month of May. Statistically, one of the best months of his career. But he is crashing back down to earth- hard. In 55 June at bats he has a .540 OPS. He isnt walking, isnt taking pitches, and isnt getting on base. Pierre is far and away the worst player of the 3, and really just isnt a very good major league ballplayer, especially for $9 million.

Mets could use power more than speed.

Manny and Pierre would be the worst defensive OF in the enite history of the game.

Personally I think Pierre has given the Dodgers absolutely what they paid for when they signed him to his contract. His stats are equal, if not better than his career averages before they signed him. It is not Pierre's fault they gave him the stupid contract and now they don't want to start him. I feel Pierre has every reason to be pissed about the situation. I think he deserves better than how he has been treated the past two years.

Call me strange, but I would keep Pierre, and trade Ethier. I know there are alot of prospectors speaking on this subject, and that is tainting their opinions. A leadoff hitter like Pierre is very valuable, and he offers far more than Ethier. Dodgers have a good problem, but moving Ethier would be the smartest move. Besides, he has more trade value. You could package he and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

Lucky Pierre

bodiaz said:

You could package he (Ethier) and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

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You are joking, right? No way the Tribe would even consider such a trade. They are still very high on Carmona and think the recent meltdown is a mirror image of that debacle his rookie year. His stuff is there...in the bullpen sessions at least, his head needs tweaked.

The Tribe doesn't want a catcher...they have Santana and talked about moving Victor to 1B. The challenge will be getting AB's for Garko, Victor and Hafner...if Hafner stays healthy and hits. Plus, their OF is looking good with Sizemore and Choo....both very solid players. That leaves one OF spot....the talk has been Brantley will eventually take that spot and hit lead-off. Then there is God....I mean Laporta who will play either 1B or OF.

Keep dreaming.... :?

Pierre shouldn't get benched but I'm betting he will be (Pierre is just way too valuable as a leadoff hitter who can wreak havoc on the base path's to not get consistent ab's). Luckily I was able to add him in most of my league's as he paid Manny-size divedend's (& might have been even MORE valuable than Manny's production-wise throughout the month of May)!

How is a leadoff hitter with on base percentages UNDER .340 since 2004 valuable? His job as a leadoff hitter, as is the job of any hitter, is to get on base, and he does that at a terrible rate. Coletti was absolutely foolish to give him that asinine contract, but Pierre has no right to play over Kemp and Ethier based on the numbers he put up for the last 5 years. Also, for all of the accolades he gets for his stolen bases, he isnt tremendous at that, either. He is a career 75% base stealer, which really means that his value as a base stealer is break even. The bottom line is that Juan Pierre, aside from this last month of May, has been a below average major league baseball player, and a well below average hitter, for the past 5 years. He is who he is, and Coletti rewarded him for his "traditional" statistics like batting average and stolen bases, which in the large scheme of things, is just about the worst way to evaluate a player. There is a reason that even with his hot month, Juan Pierre cannot be given away.

bodiaz said:

Call me strange, but I would keep Pierre, and trade Ethier. I know there are alot of prospectors speaking on this subject, and that is tainting their opinions. A leadoff hitter like Pierre is very valuable, and he offers far more than Ethier. Dodgers have a good problem, but moving Ethier would be the smartest move. Besides, he has more trade value. You could package he and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

Click to expand...

Just because you prospect doesn't mean you don't watch baseball. Pierre has cooled so much that he has had a bunch of 1-5, 0-5 nights recently. Furcal/Orlando Hudson could accomplish the same if not more than Pierre has done in the leadoff spot. Look at Hudson's #'s from the 3 hole, I assume he can do the same in the 1-2 hole. Either is a machine almost and has been very good in Manny's absence . He will only do better as he see's better pitches with manny back. Pierre has done good, and Dodger fan's thank him for his serviceable time and the attitude he's taken, he is already ok with going back to the bench, It wouldn't surprise me it they kept him to have some depth or maybe move him for some Pen/SP help.

FromKoufaxtoEdwin said:

How is a leadoff hitter with on base percentages UNDER .340 since 2004 valuable? His job as a leadoff hitter, as is the job of any hitter, is to get on base, and he does that at a terrible rate. Coletti was absolutely foolish to give him that asinine contract, but Pierre has no right to play over Kemp and Ethier based on the numbers he put up for the last 5 years. Also, for all of the accolades he gets for his stolen bases, he isnt tremendous at that, either. He is a career 75% base stealer, which really means that his value as a base stealer is break even. The bottom line is that Juan Pierre, aside from this last month of May, has been a below average major league baseball player, and a well below average hitter, for the past 5 years. He is who he is, and Coletti rewarded him for his "traditional" statistics like batting average and stolen bases, which in the large scheme of things, is just about the worst way to evaluate a player. There is a reason that even with his hot month, Juan Pierre cannot be given away.

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Nobody here likely watches actual dodger games, they just check box scores and see pierre has been decent. I think you tend to forget this

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

bodiaz said:

Call me strange, but I would keep Pierre, and trade Ethier. I know there are alot of prospectors speaking on this subject, and that is tainting their opinions. A leadoff hitter like Pierre is very valuable, and he offers far more than Ethier. Dodgers have a good problem, but moving Ethier would be the smartest move. Besides, he has more trade value. You could package he and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

Click to expand...

Just because you prospect doesn't mean you don't watch baseball. Pierre has cooled so much that he has had a bunch of 1-5, 0-5 nights recently. Furcal/Orlando Hudson could accomplish the same if not more than Pierre has done in the leadoff spot. Look at Hudson's #'s from the 3 hole, I assume he can do the same in the 1-2 hole. Either is a machine almost and has been very good in Manny's absence . He will only do better as he see's better pitches with manny back. Pierre has done good, and Dodger fan's thank him for his serviceable time and the attitude he's taken, he is already ok with going back to the bench, It wouldn't surprise me it they kept him to have some depth or maybe move him for some Pen/SP help.

Click to expand...

J.Pierre (over the last month):
32/114, 16Runs, 32hits, 0HR, 9RBI, 9SB, .281avg., 6(xbh)

A.Ethier (over the last month):
24/85, 12Runs, 24hits, 5HR, 12RBI, 2SB, .282avg., 12(xbh)

In all actuality & to be perfectly honest, the number's above show Pierre's production over the past month to be as good, if not better, than Ethier (considering Pierre is hitting leadoff, while Ethier is sitting in a more protected 5 spot & also should have more RBI capability). If you look at Ethier's peak accomplishment's, they all come when Manny is protecting him in the lineup (this has been debated since last year, but has been proven now that Manny has had an extended abscence from the lineup). IMO Pierre holds way more value in the lineup as a leadoff bat then Ethier does in the 4-5 hole (anybody can hit when when they are being served fat pitches, since Manny's batting after them).

HoustonTeams4Me said:

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

bodiaz said:

Call me strange, but I would keep Pierre, and trade Ethier. I know there are alot of prospectors speaking on this subject, and that is tainting their opinions. A leadoff hitter like Pierre is very valuable, and he offers far more than Ethier. Dodgers have a good problem, but moving Ethier would be the smartest move. Besides, he has more trade value. You could package he and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

Click to expand...

Just because you prospect doesn't mean you don't watch baseball. Pierre has cooled so much that he has had a bunch of 1-5, 0-5 nights recently. Furcal/Orlando Hudson could accomplish the same if not more than Pierre has done in the leadoff spot. Look at Hudson's #'s from the 3 hole, I assume he can do the same in the 1-2 hole. Either is a machine almost and has been very good in Manny's absence . He will only do better as he see's better pitches with manny back. Pierre has done good, and Dodger fan's thank him for his serviceable time and the attitude he's taken, he is already ok with going back to the bench, It wouldn't surprise me it they kept him to have some depth or maybe move him for some Pen/SP help.

Click to expand...

J.Pierre (over the last month):
32/114, 16Runs, 32hits, 0HR, 9RBI, 9SB, .281avg., 6(xbh)

A.Ethier (over the last month):
24/85, 12Runs, 24hits, 5HR, 12RBI, 2SB, .282avg., 12(xbh)

In all actuality & to be perfectly honest, the number's above show Pierre's production over the past month to be as good, if not better, than Ethier (considering Pierre is hitting leadoff, while Ethier is sitting in a more protected 5 spot & also should have more RBI capability). If you look at Ethier's peak accomplishment's, they all come when Manny is protecting him in the lineup (this has been debated since last year, but has been proven now that Manny has had an extended abscence from the lineup). IMO Pierre holds way more value in the lineup as a leadoff bat then Ethier does in the 4-5 hole (anybody can hit when when they are being served fat pitches, since Manny's batting after them).

Click to expand...

Either is about 10 years younger, has a much cheaper contract, and puts up bigger power numbers with Russ martin in front/behind him(if you wonder why I say this, just check how bad Russ Martin has been). Any dodger fan will tell you we will take either over Pierre. You say Either peaks with manny, guess what the discussion is about? What happens when manny is back so looks like either will peak again. You also forget that Either got off to a very very poor start when Manny left, like 1-17 or something and has since turned it around and has gotten majorly hot, while Pierre is the opposite.

I hope MLB teams think like most of the board and overpay like the dodgers did for Pierre.

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

HoustonTeams4Me said:

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

bodiaz said:

Call me strange, but I would keep Pierre, and trade Ethier. I know there are alot of prospectors speaking on this subject, and that is tainting their opinions. A leadoff hitter like Pierre is very valuable, and he offers far more than Ethier. Dodgers have a good problem, but moving Ethier would be the smartest move. Besides, he has more trade value. You could package he and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

Click to expand...

Just because you prospect doesn't mean you don't watch baseball. Pierre has cooled so much that he has had a bunch of 1-5, 0-5 nights recently. Furcal/Orlando Hudson could accomplish the same if not more than Pierre has done in the leadoff spot. Look at Hudson's #'s from the 3 hole, I assume he can do the same in the 1-2 hole. Either is a machine almost and has been very good in Manny's absence . He will only do better as he see's better pitches with manny back. Pierre has done good, and Dodger fan's thank him for his serviceable time and the attitude he's taken, he is already ok with going back to the bench, It wouldn't surprise me it they kept him to have some depth or maybe move him for some Pen/SP help.

Click to expand...

J.Pierre (over the last month):
32/114, 16Runs, 32hits, 0HR, 9RBI, 9SB, .281avg., 6(xbh)

A.Ethier (over the last month):
24/85, 12Runs, 24hits, 5HR, 12RBI, 2SB, .282avg., 12(xbh)

In all actuality & to be perfectly honest, the number's above show Pierre's production over the past month to be as good, if not better, than Ethier (considering Pierre is hitting leadoff, while Ethier is sitting in a more protected 5 spot & also should have more RBI capability). If you look at Ethier's peak accomplishment's, they all come when Manny is protecting him in the lineup (this has been debated since last year, but has been proven now that Manny has had an extended abscence from the lineup). IMO Pierre holds way more value in the lineup as a leadoff bat then Ethier does in the 4-5 hole (anybody can hit when when they are being served fat pitches, since Manny's batting after them).

Click to expand...

Either is about 10 years younger, has a much cheaper contract, and puts up bigger power numbers with Russ martin in front/behind him(if you wonder why I say this, just check how bad Russ Martin has been). Any dodger fan will tell you we will take either over Pierre. You say Either peaks with manny, guess what the discussion is about? What happens when manny is back so looks like either will peak again. You also forget that Either got off to a very very poor start when Manny left, like 1-17 or something and has since turned it around and has gotten majorly hot, while Pierre is the opposite.

I hope MLB teams think like most of the board and overpay like the dodgers did for Pierre.

Click to expand...

Exactly! 10 years younger+ cheap contract= great trade value! Why not trade the guy with more trade value if they are equally productive? You are going for a championship this year, give me the guy that has been there! Ethier is a very average player, and overrated by prospectors.

bodiaz said:

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

HoustonTeams4Me said:

ProspectorsAdvantage said:

bodiaz said:

Call me strange, but I would keep Pierre, and trade Ethier. I know there are alot of prospectors speaking on this subject, and that is tainting their opinions. A leadoff hitter like Pierre is very valuable, and he offers far more than Ethier. Dodgers have a good problem, but moving Ethier would be the smartest move. Besides, he has more trade value. You could package he and Ricky Russ Martin and get Victor Martinez, Carmona and a prospect.

Click to expand...

Just because you prospect doesn't mean you don't watch baseball. Pierre has cooled so much that he has had a bunch of 1-5, 0-5 nights recently. Furcal/Orlando Hudson could accomplish the same if not more than Pierre has done in the leadoff spot. Look at Hudson's #'s from the 3 hole, I assume he can do the same in the 1-2 hole. Either is a machine almost and has been very good in Manny's absence . He will only do better as he see's better pitches with manny back. Pierre has done good, and Dodger fan's thank him for his serviceable time and the attitude he's taken, he is already ok with going back to the bench, It wouldn't surprise me it they kept him to have some depth or maybe move him for some Pen/SP help.

Click to expand...

J.Pierre (over the last month):
32/114, 16Runs, 32hits, 0HR, 9RBI, 9SB, .281avg., 6(xbh)

A.Ethier (over the last month):
24/85, 12Runs, 24hits, 5HR, 12RBI, 2SB, .282avg., 12(xbh)

In all actuality & to be perfectly honest, the number's above show Pierre's production over the past month to be as good, if not better, than Ethier (considering Pierre is hitting leadoff, while Ethier is sitting in a more protected 5 spot & also should have more RBI capability). If you look at Ethier's peak accomplishment's, they all come when Manny is protecting him in the lineup (this has been debated since last year, but has been proven now that Manny has had an extended abscence from the lineup). IMO Pierre holds way more value in the lineup as a leadoff bat then Ethier does in the 4-5 hole (anybody can hit when when they are being served fat pitches, since Manny's batting after them).

Click to expand...

Either is about 10 years younger, has a much cheaper contract, and puts up bigger power numbers with Russ martin in front/behind him(if you wonder why I say this, just check how bad Russ Martin has been). Any dodger fan will tell you we will take either over Pierre. You say Either peaks with manny, guess what the discussion is about? What happens when manny is back so looks like either will peak again. You also forget that Either got off to a very very poor start when Manny left, like 1-17 or something and has since turned it around and has gotten majorly hot, while Pierre is the opposite.

I hope MLB teams think like most of the board and overpay like the dodgers did for Pierre.

Click to expand...

Exactly! 10 years younger+ cheap contract= great trade value! Why not trade the guy with more trade value if they are equally productive? You are going for a championship this year, give me the guy that has been there! Ethier is a very average player, and overrated by prospectors.

Click to expand...

Overrated by what prospectors? Guy is not a prospect and hasn't been one for a while. I don't see that argument.


The thing is Pierre/Either are not equally productive. Either hits for more power, and will drive in even more runs when manny is back. Orlando Hudson can lead off or bat 2nd while furcal leads off, both those players are equal to Pierre. The problem lies within the contract of Pierre. Not very many people want to invest 9 million dollars in a average lead off man. Also not sure if Either per say has more trade value, he is on a one year contract and will likely be getting paid very well next year.... Teams would not have him locked up at multiple years at his 3 million rate.

By the way I fully believe the Dodgers will keep Pierre and keep him as a role reserve player.

Juan Pierre will head back to the bench when Manny Ramirez returns from his 50-game suspension, confirmed Joe Torre.
"Yeah, I really didn't consider any other option," Torre said, adding that Pierre will play about twice a week while giving one of the three regular outfielders a rest. Pierre is batting .352 in 165 at-bats with an .867 OPS.
Source: Los Angeles Daily News