Food for thought: Comparison of Player A vs B

braden · Jul 10, 2009

I'm presenting these without any commentary. In looking at these, just give me your initial thoughts. These are not prospects and are Major League stats.

If you know who these are, please don't reveal them right away.

Player A:

281 AB (77 G). 278/358/527 (885 OPS). 18 HR (HR per 15.6 AB) 33 BB. 70 K
Player A is an outfielder. Defensively, he is considered below-average to average. He has never won a Gold Glove.

Player B:

167 AB (39 G). 279/361/483 (844 OPS). 7 HR (HR per 23.9 AB). 17 BB. 38 K
Player B is an infielder. Defensively, he is considered above average. He has won Gold Gloves.

So, again, just give me your thoughts.

Edited to account for defence. Defensive statistics are not available for these particular performances. The mini bios above take their defence over the course of their career into account.

hofautos · Jul 10, 2009

A looks slightly better...how about defense?

This comparison looks better

how about your player A
Player A:
281 AB (77 G). 278/358/527 (885 OPS). 18 HR (HR per 15.6 AB) 33 BB. 70 K

TO this player
299 AB 304/359/525 (884 OPS) 16HR 25BB 48SO

A_Pharis · Jul 10, 2009

Assuming that players IMPROVE their batting eye as they get more trips to the plate, I'd have to say that Player B is going to develop into a better batter. Yea, he hits fewer homeruns, but he's making decent contact and can improve on his power.
Right now, player B is already seeing a slightly lower percentage of Ks, too, and you'd have to think that would get BETTER as he sees more at bats -- meaning by the time he hit's the 270+ AB mark he will have his K% cut down some (and likewise have a high BB%).

I'd honestly have to go with B... I'm not too impressed by the HR hitting of A.

braden · Jul 10, 2009

A_Pharis said:
Assuming that players IMPROVE their batting eye as they get more trips to the plate, I'd have to say that Player B is going to develop into a better batter. Yea, he hits fewer homeruns, but he's making decent contact and can improve on his power.
Right now, player B is already seeing a slightly lower percentage of Ks, too, and you'd have to think that would get BETTER as he sees more at bats -- meaning by the time he hit's the 270+ AB mark he will have his K% cut down some (and likewise have a high BB%).

I'd honestly have to go with B... I'm not too impressed by the HR hitting of A.

Sorry, let me say these are established players. These games are not necessarily consecutive either. Don't take progression/regression into account. Just performance.

hofautos · Jul 10, 2009

A_Pharis said:
Assuming that players IMPROVE their batting eye as they get more trips to the plate, I'd have to say that Player B is going to develop into a better batter. Yea, he hits fewer homeruns, but he's making decent contact and can improve on his power.
Right now, player B is already seeing a slightly lower percentage of Ks, too, and you'd have to think that would get BETTER as he sees more at bats -- meaning by the time he hit's the 270+ AB mark he will have his K% cut down some (and likewise have a high BB%).

I'd honestly have to go with B... I'm not too impressed by the HR hitting of A.

An equal number of players start off hot and go into slumps and get worse with ABs too...not sure your argument is good that you get better with more AB's....sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many batters start off batting 400+ for several months and end the seaons in the 250s

braden · Jul 10, 2009

hofautos said:
A looks slightly better...how about defense?

Good question. I don't have fielding statistics for these particular games but, on the whole:

Player A is an outfielder. He is considered below-average to average. He has never won a Gold Glove.

Player B is an infielder. He is considered above average. He has won Gold Gloves.

hofautos · Jul 10, 2009

braden said:
hofautos said:

A looks slightly better...how about defense?

Click to expand...

Good question. I don't have fielding statistics for these particular games but, on the whole:

Player A is an outfielder. He is considered below-average to average. He has never won a Gold Glove.

Player B is an infielder. He is considered above average. He has won Gold Gloves.

the players stats that i gave you that looked similar to your player A is Konerko

braden · Jul 10, 2009

hofautos said:
braden said:

hofautos said:

A looks slightly better...how about defense?

Click to expand...

Good question. I don't have fielding statistics for these particular games but, on the whole:

Player A is an outfielder. He is considered below-average to average. He has never won a Gold Glove.

Player B is an infielder. He is considered above average. He has won Gold Gloves.

Click to expand...

the players stats that i gave you that looked similar to your player A is Konerko

You're right, those are remarkably similar. My player A isn't Konerko.

Honestly, I think some people will be very surprised as to who/what those stats are.

Frow · Jul 10, 2009

My thought:

What are you trying to get out of it and/or prove?

If you're asking which player is better it's apples and oranges. If you're asking which one deserves an all-star more then more informaiton is needed....and it's apples and oranges.

braden · Jul 10, 2009

Frow said:
My thought:

What are you trying to get out of it and/or prove?

If you're asking which player is better it's apples and oranges. If you're asking which one deserves an all-star more then more informaiton is needed....and it's apples and oranges.

I'm not asking who's better. And it has nothing to do with AS. It's simply about perceptions.

rookieaddict · Jul 10, 2009

Are these stats from this year? If so, A is Berkman....can't decipher who B is

braden · Jul 10, 2009

rookieaddict said:
Are these stats from this year? If so, A is Berkman....can't decipher who B is

Nope, they're not. They're an accumulation of games that took place over numerous seasons (it makes sense).

rookieaddict · Jul 10, 2009

braden said:
(it makes sense).

Not really, the two are totally unrelated. What position do these people play? Infield and outfield isn't enough information. B looks like decent numbers for a gold glove shortstop or second baseman...I'd look for more production out of my 1st baseman or 3rd baseman. The outfielder looks like a upper middle class corner outfielder.

braden · Jul 10, 2009

rookieaddict said:
braden said:

(it makes sense).

Click to expand...

Not really, the two are totally unrelated. What position do these people play? Infield and outfield isn't enough information. B looks like decent numbers for a gold glove shortstop or second baseman...I'd look for more production out of my 1st baseman or 3rd baseman. The outfielder looks like a upper middle class corner outfielder.

I'm not trying to be cryptic but you're looking far too deeply into this. I'll post who they are and when in a few.

rookieaddict · Jul 10, 2009

braden said:
rookieaddict said:

braden said:

(it makes sense).

Click to expand...

Not really, the two are totally unrelated. What position do these people play? Infield and outfield isn't enough information. B looks like decent numbers for a gold glove shortstop or second baseman...I'd look for more production out of my 1st baseman or 3rd baseman. The outfielder looks like a upper middle class corner outfielder.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be cryptic but you're looking far too deeply into this. I'll post who they are and when in a few.

Only way this is relevant at all is if it's the same player

braden · Jul 10, 2009

Ok, I'm going to reveal this now as the conversation was derailed a little bit with people looking at defence and whether the player is good for their position. Not their fault as this was purposely left quite amibiguous but that was out of necessity.

Again, the stat lines:

Player A:

281 AB (77 G). 278/358/527 (885 OPS). 18 HR (HR per 15.6 AB) 33 BB. 70 K

Player B:

167 AB (39 G). 279/361/483 (844 OPS). 7 HR (HR per 23.9 AB). 17 BB. 38 K

Line A is Reggie Jackson's career Postseason line. Mr. October.

Line B is the career Postseason line of Alex Rodriguez. Mr. May.

Obviously there is more to it than those two lines. But for guys with such wildly different reputations, it's kinda funny.

Vagrant · Jul 10, 2009

Reggie Jackson got the reputation for being clutch when it mattered. Hits at the right time, Home Runs at the right time. The collective stats were never really the most impressive thing about Reggie, more of the timing of the feats. That cannot be expressed via a stat line.

However, another interesting point of note is that the .278 batting average represents an increase over Jackson's career average of .262. +.16 if you will.

For A-Rod, the average represents a decrease from a career .304 hitter to .279, which is a -.25 drop and very significant.

Jackson was notorious for raising his game when the stakes were high, and the stats hash that out. A-Rod is notorious for decrease in his quality of hitting, and the stats also hash that out. Not sure what this was intended to prove.

Huffamaniac · Jul 10, 2009

Very good point.

Vagrant said:
Reggie Jackson got the reputation for being clutch when it mattered. Hits at the right time, Home Runs at the right time. The collective stats were never really the most impressive thing about Reggie, more of the timing of the feats. That cannot be expressed via a stat line.

However, another interesting point of note is that the .278 batting average represents an increase over Jackson's career average of .262. +.16 if you will.

For A-Rod, the average represents a decrease from a career .304 hitter to .279, which is a -.25 drop and very significant.

Jackson was notorious for raising his game when the stakes were high, and the stats hash that out. A-Rod is notorious for decrease in his quality of hitting, and the stats also hash that out. Not sure what this was intended to prove.

matfanofold · Jul 10, 2009

This thread is a prime example as to why, if you have no context, stats are worthless as a guage of anything except your math skill.

braden · Jul 10, 2009

Vagrant said:
Reggie Jackson got the reputation for being clutch when it mattered. Hits at the right time, Home Runs at the right time. The collective stats were never really the most impressive thing about Reggie, more of the timing of the feats. That cannot be expressed via a stat line.

However, another interesting point of note is that the .278 batting average represents an increase over Jackson's career average of .262. +.16 if you will.

For A-Rod, the average represents a decrease from a career .304 hitter to .279, which is a -.25 drop and very significant.

Jackson was notorious for raising his game when the stakes were high, and the stats hash that out. A-Rod is notorious for decrease in his quality of hitting, and the stats also hash that out. Not sure what this was intended to prove.

It wasn't intending to prove anything.

Obviously Jackson's reputation come from his timely hits. Without the 3 HR game, he likely wouldn't be Mr. October. Hell, Derek Jeter is Mr. November despite being one of the worst players in a series the Yankees lost, but I digress.

All I was pointing out was that the disparity between the two reputations doesn't match the performance. Hell, Jackson had some terrible playoffs for the Yankees. And Rodriguez has had some excellent ones. I would safely bet that the majority of people who parrot the "ARod's a playoff failure" line would have no idea his career OPS is in the .850 range.

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