When talking top Starting Pitchers in the National League...

....how come no one mentions Javier Vazquez?

After his win tonight, his stats look like this:

7-7 record (Dan Haren will tell you this is overrated)
141 K's (2nd in the NL)
1.05 WHIP (4th in the NL)
2.86 ERA (8th in the NL)
24 BB's allowed (tied for 5th in the NL)
.229 BAA (tied for 5th in the NL)

Record not withstanding, his season looks just as good as Lincecum's and Haren's. It also looks better than Johan's, Carpenter's, Josh Johnson's and Cain's. Not to mention he has pitched in one less game then both Haren and Lincecum, which could make his stats stand out a little more.

Yet, people are saying the Johan and Matt Cain are more deserving of the Cy young then him (by mentioning those two over him).

Crazy.

Anthony K. said:

....how come no one mentions Javier Vazquez?

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Because he's Javier Vazquez?

He's always been good, many thought he would eventually be great, but he's been a tease most of the time. Also, if you ask Ozzie Guillen, he's not a big game pitcher. Now you're talking this season, but it's perception.

Because he's never played in a very large media market. The White Sox? They don't get the coverage the Cubs do....

Ultimately the media decides who becomes a star.....

Brett Keith said:

[quote="Anthony K.":szksif3z]....how come no one mentions Javier Vazquez?

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Because he's Javier Vazquez?

He's always been good, many thought he would eventually be great, but he's been a tease most of the time. Also, if you ask Ozzie Guillen, he's not a big game pitcher. Now you're talking this season, but it's perception.[/quote:szksif3z]
That's actually the reason.

sheetskout said:

Because he's never played in a very large media market. The White Sox? They don't get the coverage the Cubs do....

Ultimately the media decides who becomes a star.....

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Paul Konerko for the Sox is the same way. Quietly getting the job done, get's no coverage or hobby love

Because he's not as good as Haren, Lincecum, Cain and about 10 other NL pitchers. It's nothing against him he's just not a top tier NL pitcher. It's that simple.

Honestly, you can't say his season/numbers are as good as Haren and Lincecum because they're not.

kdailey4315 said:

Because he's not as good as Haren, Lincecum, Cain and about 10 other NL pitchers. It's nothing against him he's just not a top tier NL pitcher. It's that simple.

Honestly, you can't say his season/numbers are as good as Haren and Lincecum because they're not.

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Then obviously you aren't looking at the numbers.

The only two pitchers in the league who's stats resemble Javier's are Tim and Dan.

That's it.

His numbers are better than Cain and about 70 others.

Stats speak for themselves.

sheetskout said:

Because he's never played in a very large media market. The White Sox? They don't get the coverage the Cubs do....

Ultimately the media decides who becomes a star.....

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The Yankees aren't a large media market? Lol

Vazquez has been really good this year, but to be fair to Haren, a 1.96 ERA and 0.80 are SIGNIFICANTLY better than 2.86 ERA and 1.05 WHIP. He's also won more games on a far worse team. I don't want to diminish anything Vazquez is doing, but Haren right now is at the top of the mountain looking down on everyone else in the league.

pujolsjunkie said:

Vazquez has been really good this year, but to be fair to Haren, a 1.96 ERA and 0.80 are SIGNIFICANTLY better than 2.86 ERA and 1.05 WHIP. He's also won more games on a far worse team. I don't want to diminish anything Vazquez is doing, but Haren right now is at the top of the mountain looking down on everyone else in the league.

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I never said he wasn't.

I am being MORE than fair to Haren.

I am just asking people to be fair to VAZQUEZ.

That's all.

He and Jair Jurrjens are a good 1-2 combo... Both are underrated. BTW Joe Morgan says Javier isn't a strikeout pitcher.

Anthony K. said:

kdailey4315 said:

Because he's not as good as Haren, Lincecum, Cain and about 10 other NL pitchers. It's nothing against him he's just not a top tier NL pitcher. It's that simple.

Honestly, you can't say his season/numbers are as good as Haren and Lincecum because they're not.

Click to expand...

Then obviously you aren't looking at the numbers.

The only two pitchers in the league who's stats resemble Javier's are Tim and Dan.

That's it.

His numbers are better than Cain and about 70 others.

Stats speak for themselves.

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It would appear that you in fact are not looking at the stats. Cain has a better era more quality starts and more wins. Javier only has more K's and a slightly better whip. Also Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana, and Josh Johnson are having statistically better seasons or are very close in just about every category.

kdailey4315 said:

Anthony K. said:

kdailey4315 said:

Because he's not as good as Haren, Lincecum, Cain and about 10 other NL pitchers. It's nothing against him he's just not a top tier NL pitcher. It's that simple.

Honestly, you can't say his season/numbers are as good as Haren and Lincecum because they're not.

Click to expand...

Then obviously you aren't looking at the numbers.

The only two pitchers in the league who's stats resemble Javier's are Tim and Dan.

That's it.

His numbers are better than Cain and about 70 others.

Stats speak for themselves.

Click to expand...

It would appear that you in fact are not looking at the stats. Cain has a better era more quality starts and more wins. Javier only has more K's and a slightly better whip. Also Chris Carpenter, Johan Santana, and Josh Johnson are having statistically better seasons or are very close in just about every category.

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Wins are a worthless stat to gauge a pitcher by.

Carpenter- 91IP, 14BB, 71K, 2.26ERA, 0.88WHIP...notice he missed some starts, so his numbers could be better OR worse.
Johan- 123IP, 39BB, 117K, 2.92ERA, 1.19WHIP
Josh Johnson- 128IP, 35BB, 109K, 2.74ERA, 1.13WHIP
Cain- 117IP, 46BB, 95K, 2.38ERA, 1.24WHIP
Vazquez- 126 IP, 24BB, 141K, 2.86ERA, 1.08WHIP

He has the least amount of walks out of everyone that has pitched healthy, most K's, 2nd lowest WHIP, 2nd highest amount of IP, 2nd best K:BB, Johnson and Johan have more QS, whereas ain has the same amount as Javy and only one of the above pitchers has a better BAA then Vazquez (though Johan and Johnson do share the same BAA, Cain's is actually worse). Not to mention Lincecum is the only pitcher with a better K/9.

Looking at his stats, he has better overall numbers then Johan, Josh Johnson and Cain, wins not withstanding.

I say again, the stats speak for themselves.