Your thoughts on Lesnar?

Okay, a while has passed now since UFC 87, and a lot of talking has been done about Brock Lesnar since his beat down of Heath Herring.

First off, he kicked the ever loving crap out of Herring. I believed he wanted to punish Herring as much as he could after hearing what I heard after the fight. I read that Herring went to Dana White and told White that he didn't think it was right that he had to fight the 'former professional wrestler' yadda yadda. Well, that got back to Lesnar's camp, and Brock wasn't too trilled to hear that. Herring said he wanted Lesnar to try to stand with him. Well, that worked out well for The Texas Crazy Horse now didn't it? Lesnar tried standing with him, and Herring did a back flip because of it. You got what you wanted Herring and you were laid out flat on your ass.

Anyway, during the fight there were somet things that I didn't particularly care for. I didn't like that Lesnar was bobbing his head with the crowds chants in the middle of a round, and I didn't like that he let up and got off of Herring before the fight was over. Those two things I didn't care for.

But what I have been getting into arguments with people over are what Brock did after the fight was over. Pointing and laughing at Herring when the last round ended, and then Brock acting like he was riding a horse and then lassoing Herring and acting like he was reeling him in. I have been getting told that 'There's no place for that stuff in UFC' blah blah blah. WHAT? I see fighters doing that kind of stuff ALL OF THE TIME in MMA. People always celebrate after a big win. Who was it that dug the grave or whatever? It's the exact same thing as that. And with what Herring said, it was more of a personal shot than anything because Lesnar felt slighted. No place for it in MMA? That's ridiculous! I see nothing wrong with what Brock did AFTER the fight. Herring deserved to be made look a fool after what he said, and then getting just owned by someone he didn't feel was worthy of being in the cage with him to begin with.

But like I said, I didn't like the antics DURING the fight. He needs to just fight the fight, and if he wins, then do whatever he wants after the fight.

But for people to use the 'there's no place for that in UFC' argument is just ludacris to me. I have been hearing the 'this isn't pro wrestling' argument too. You're right, it isn't. Brock's not out there faking those punches or faking the take downs or faking any part of it. He's actually out there fighting and doing a damn good job of it so far. I think people tend to let the pro wrestling aspect of his past overshadow everything, and they tend to forget that this was only his THIRD professional MMA fight EVER! And he's been doing damn good in my opinion. I KNOW he has major holes in his game, that's obvious, and the longer he's in UFC that will develop. Again, that goes back to this being his THIRD fight ever. Dana White asked him when he first signed with UFC if he wanted to go somewhere else and take a couple fights and sharpen up his game, and Lesnar said no, that he wanted the best competition right out of the shoots. He wanted to fight the best and see what he was really made of, not take a bunch of easy fights. And Dana's not gave him anything so far. He got the former Heavyweight champ first fight, a very legit Heath Herring in his second, which was supposed to be UFC Hall of Famer Mark Coleman, but he had to be replaced due to an injury. And next he may get Congo. So it's not like he's getting taken easy on by the match makers. But he's still getting hated on big time. I guess the die hard UFC fans just don't like a former WWE guy coming in and succeeding. And Brock will succeed, and he will hugely succeed.

Whether you love him or you hate him, you can't deny he's a beast. He will be a huge draw. His antics after the fight were all a part of the plan. Brock doesn't care if you hate him, in fact, he wants you to. He'll make more money that way. YOU will pay to see him get his ass knocked off. And then you will probably watch him beat the ever loving crap out of whoever it is that you want to knock him out.

If Brock can take a large punch, and he gets his BJJ sharpened up, he will very tough to beat. Hell, he doesn't have the BJJ game and he's still tough to beat, just ask Mir. Only reason he lost that fight was because of a rookie mistake,

But Brock is going to be a force to be reckoned with for a long time in UFC.

Hate him, he wants you to.

"I'm sorry if I offended anyone...oh, wait, no I'm not, I don't care at all."
-Brock Lesnar.
Post Fight UFC 87

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You must be a wrestling fan!
Because for you to NOT KNOW who "digs the grave or whatever", is showing that you don't keep up on MMA.

My thoughts on Lesnar. He was pretty impressive. BUt he has alot to learn before he's a force to be reckoned with. He need to adapt and learn.

1.) He needs to learn the ground game. That's right. THe ground game. Yeah he's a collegate badass wrestler, but once he got Herring down what did he do? NOTHING. He didn't know what to do.

Get him in a camp like Team Quest or continue LEARNING something at the Militech camp.Teach him some BJJ and LEARN something.

2.) He needs to really learn submission defense. Enough said.

3.) To further improve his game, I think he needs to get into the XC camp and learn some Dirty Boxing. If he can add some stand-up cage pounding A-La Randy, I think he'd be even that more dangerous.

I think Lesnar has a bright future. He has the size and raw talent, but he just needs to really LEARN and improve his game.

Yes, I am a wrestling fan, and oddly enough, I wasn't a fan of Lesnar's when he was in WWE.


And I know that Tito did the grave digger celebration, but I am not a fan of his, so I didn't want to mention his name.


And I agree with everything you said about him needing to improve.


I just feel he is being very underestimated just because of his past. Some people just won't look at him as legit no matter what.

Lesnar is a beast. A true athlete.

BUT..............



He's also a pompous ass. He needs to learn sportsmanship and learn to respect the other fighters. Nothing better than to see the winner of a match show respect to the loser. Lesnar mocking Herring was totally uncalled for and totally disrespectful.



Jay

Pete14Rose said:

Lesnar mocking Herring was totally uncalled for and totally disrespectful.

Jay

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That's my point here. It WASN'T disrespectful. Is Tito's celebration disrespectful? No, and don't tell me it's any different. What was disrespectful was Herring going to Dana and telling him that he thinks it's BS to have to fight Lesnar because he didn't feel he was on his level. THAT is what's disrespectful, and he paid for it.

It was disrespectful to the entire UFC what he did DURING the fight, but after it, it's fair game. If Herring had won and then mocked Lesnar's mannarisms, nobody would have said a word. They would have said that Lesnar got what he deserved.

Well, he is pretty sure that he is the best there is...LOL

Seriously though, Lesnar is far away from being a top ranked HW. His striking is yet to be tested, and his jiu-jitsu skills are, well... not there.

I think he has talent, but needs to learn some respect. Sure its important to believe in yourself and also to have charisma, but acting like a total ******* is something the sport doesn't need.

And yes, I hate Tito too. lol

Ty Hope said:

Well, he is pretty sure that he is the best there is...LOL

Seriously though, Lesnar is far away from being a top ranked HW. His striking is yet to be tested, and his jiu-jitsu skills are, well... not there.

I think he has talent, but needs to learn some respect. Sure its important to believe in yourself and also to have charisma, but acting like a total ******* is something the sport doesn't need.

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Exactly.

Ty Hope said:

Well, he is pretty sure that he is the best there is...LOL

Seriously though, Lesnar is far away from being a top ranked HW. His striking is yet to be tested, and his jiu-jitsu skills are, well... not there.

I think he has talent, but needs to learn some respect. Sure its important to believe in yourself and also to have charisma, but acting like a total ******* is something the sport doesn't need.

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Oh yes, but it's going to make him and Dana a LOT of money.



Yeah, I know what you are saying Ty. I mentioned in my OP that he needs major work to his game to become the fighter that he COULD be. And that's scary because he is ALREADY a beast.


I said from the outset that if he can take a punch that eventually he will be virtually unstopable. Because the ground game and submissions will come with more training. But you can't teach how to not have a glass jaw. We're yet to see if he can take the type of punch that he delivered to Herring to start the fight.

Pete14Rose said:

Ty Hope said:

Well, he is pretty sure that he is the best there is...LOL

Seriously though, Lesnar is far away from being a top ranked HW. His striking is yet to be tested, and his jiu-jitsu skills are, well... not there.

I think he has talent, but needs to learn some respect. Sure its important to believe in yourself and also to have charisma, but acting like a total ******* is something the sport doesn't need.

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Exactly.

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And you will pay to watch someone teach him respect.

Before the Lesnar hype goes any further, we'll see if he can beat Kongo (striker) and Werdum (jiu-jitsu) to start with. Nogeira would beat him easily.

Everyone knows all the best HWs aren't in the UFC right now anyway.

I think he'd beat Kongo.

Herring beat him.

Sam Banks said:

Pete14Rose said:

[quote="Ty Hope":1zzxjblh]Well, he is pretty sure that he is the best there is...LOL

Seriously though, Lesnar is far away from being a top ranked HW. His striking is yet to be tested, and his jiu-jitsu skills are, well... not there.

I think he has talent, but needs to learn some respect. Sure its important to believe in yourself and also to have charisma, but acting like a total ******* is something the sport doesn't need.

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Exactly.

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And you will pay to watch someone teach him respect.[/quote:1zzxjblh]

I will? Really.

No, I won't. I don't watch it to watch it because I have a "blood lust" like most misdirected youth in this country. or because I'm caught up in the whole MMA thing.

I only caught the Lesnar fight on Youtube 3 days after it actually happened. And from what I saw I was so happy I didn't piss away PPV money. Do I think he could be a good heavyweight? Sure. But as far as I am concerned right now....he's classless. Do I want to watch someone beat some respect into him? As you suggested. No. I don't care all that much. I'll leave that up to the over obsessed fans.

While I'm at it...I'll point out that I'm not a fan of the UFC.....was never a fan of ridiculous wrestling.

My favorite fighter today is Uriah Faber. Decent kid with a lot of skills. A little cocky, but to my knowledge, never disrespectful to the sport or opponents.

Sam Banks said:

I think he'd beat Kongo.

Herring beat him.

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Wandy beat Rampage
Rampage beat Chuck
Chuck beat Wandy

mma math doesn't work

Lessnar did look impressive and overpowered heath badly. he still needs a lot of work like everyone else is saying. as far as the dissrespect thing i will say this, the celebration after the fight was fine i had no problems with the silly lasso thing. the things i had issues with were the laughing in his face after the fight and the crap durring the fight i thought that was pretty classless. i think that Brock will fill the void of the guy you either love or hate that Tito filled before him. people will pay for his fights now to either see what he will do next or in the hopes to see him get his mouth shut.

overall i am looking forward to see his next fight and to see how he evolves as a fighter. with the right training camp the guy could end up holding the HW title for a long long time.

That's pretty much everything I had to say on the matter in a nut shell.


I watched the post fight interview with all the fighters today and Dana was at the podium talking about how Herring said he thought it was bullcrap that he had to fight Lesnar, and that's why Lesnar laughed in his face. Lesnar said he wanted to have the last laugh, and that's what he got. I personally don't think he was trying to disrespect him, as much as it was personal because he didn't like what was said before the introductions from Herrings camp.


But hey, it's exciting, he's exciting, and it's going to be really really fun to watch Lesnar in UFC whether you love him or you hate him. And that's really the entire point of all this isn't it?

Russ S. said:

You must be a wrestling fan!
Because for you to NOT KNOW who "digs the grave or whatever", is showing that you don't keep up on MMA.

My thoughts on Lesnar. He was pretty impressive. BUt he has alot to learn before he's a force to be reckoned with. He need to adapt and learn.

1.) He needs to learn the ground game. That's right. THe ground game. Yeah he's a collegate badass wrestler, but once he got Herring down what did he do? NOTHING. He didn't know what to do.

Get him in a camp like Team Quest or continue LEARNING something at the Militech camp.Teach him some BJJ and LEARN something.

2.) He needs to really learn submission defense. Enough said.

3.) To further improve his game, I think he needs to get into the XC camp and learn some Dirty Boxing. If he can add some stand-up cage pounding A-La Randy, I think he'd be even that more dangerous.

I think Lesnar has a bright future. He has the size and raw talent, but he just needs to really LEARN and improve his game.

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brock did train with Miletich until he basically backdropped matt hughes during a training session and almost hurt him, and was confronted by Pat and the other teammates about it. he didnt come back after that.

I dont agree with the ground game...unless you mean submissions. as we saw, his ground game was very good and heath had no where to go
, but, there were multiple submission opportunities he let go.

...i dont think he necessarily needs stand-up work, as we saw, he sparred with heath great, and gave him a definite Ultimate Knockouts hit. but, to work on different aspects of it wont be a bad idea.

...i agree, he needs submissions work. badly. this will be his downfall if he doesnt learn it fast.

...and for the people who say "brock needs to learn respect" or "hes classless"....get over it. this is what makes UFC so popular. so he lasso'd heath herring in after beating his ass horribly, big deal. tito did it years ago, and it gave tito a reputation. How about the "Guy Metzger is my Bitch" and "I Killed Kenny, You Bastard" shirts tito wore? this is what established tito as someone that people either love to see win, or the guy that people love to see get knocked out. Brock is going to make UFC money because people are gonna want to see what happens with him. i know i'll be paying, and the ironic thing is, is that the people who are bitching about it will be paying too. rivalries are what make combat sports interesting. otherwise, the UFC would not be where it is today and that is a fact.

I agree with everything you just said.

He's a beast.