Hanley ramirez......

is now hitting 358...i mean i expected him to have a great year, but i never thought he would have this high of an average, damn NL is loaded so no MVP

He has absolutely raked this season, but because his power is down a bit, no one seems to have noticed.

Topnotchsy said:

He has absolutely raked this season, but because his power is down a bit, no one seems to have noticed.

Click to expand...

agree..he already has the same amount of rbis he had in 07 and 20 more than he had last year, its an outside shot but he has a chance at 30 hrs if he goes on a little power streak and 100 rbis is almost a guranteed

dp

KOBEARODLT said:

Topnotchsy said:

He has absolutely raked this season, but because his power is down a bit, no one seems to have noticed.

Click to expand...

agree..he already has the same amount of rbis he had in 07 and 20 more than he had last year, its an outside shot but he has a chance at 30 hrs if he goes on a little power streak and 100 rbis is almost a guranteed

Click to expand...

The RBI increase is directly related to moving from the leadoff spot, but the fact he's on pace for 115 RBI is very solid. He's also on pace to set career highs in hits (213) doubles (50) BA, OBP and SLG while hitting 25 homers and stealing 30+ bases and scoring over 100 runs (numbers taken from ESPN.) Really an incredible season!! Only tiny negative is that BB's are down and K's are up, but with everything else I think that can be ignored.

Time for me to list his gold Refractor from topps finest.

Let me say these two things first: Hanley is a fantastic ballplayer and I'm a homer for the Rockies.

Now let me say this: I think, given his fielding superiority, I'd take Tulowitzki as my SS if I were starting a team. I may take Hanley and move him to another spot, but Tulo's my SS.

Flame away, you fantasy ******.

Where do you rank him on the 2009 NL MVP ballot (AKA, the "Let's talk about something else, this is already been decided" award)?

I got Albert 1 (and locked up), then...

Fielder

then?

Hanley? Braun? Pablo?

Mighty Bombjack said:

Let me say these two things first: Hanley is a fantastic ballplayer and I'm a homer for the Rockies.

Now let me say this: I think, given his fielding superiority, I'd take Tulowitzki as my SS if I were starting a team. I may take Hanley and move him to another spot, but Tulo's my SS.

Flame away, you fantasy ******.

Click to expand...

yeah your right who wouldnt take tulo over hanley... ::facepalm:: by the way...tulo has 6 errors whild hanley has 9 erros, not that big of a difference. And i dont even play fantasy, hanley is just the better player flat out.

and for my NL MVP i would have to go albert, prince, hanley, than braun

KOBEARODLT said:

Mighty Bombjack said:

Let me say these two things first: Hanley is a fantastic ballplayer and I'm a homer for the Rockies.

Now let me say this: I think, given his fielding superiority, I'd take Tulowitzki as my SS if I were starting a team. I may take Hanley and move him to another spot, but Tulo's my SS.

Flame away, you fantasy ******.

Click to expand...

yeah your right who wouldnt take tulo over hanley... ::facepalm:: by the way...tulo has 6 errors whild hanley has 9 erros, not that big of a difference. And i dont even play fantasy, hanley is just the better player flat out.

and for my NL MVP i would have to go albert, prince, hanley, than braun

Click to expand...

Tulo has 317 assists to Ramirez's 250 so far this year. And in 2007 (when he last played the full year) he had 561 to Ramirez's 392. Think he gets to a few more balls than Hanley? I do. But, again, I'm just being a homer. Hanley Ramirez is a seriously great ballplayer. I'd just move him to another position and put Tulo at SS, that's all.

Wow this sold for almost 700 bucks 687 actaully.
03 Bowman Chrome Hanley Ramirez auto rc gold refractor

Mighty Bombjack said:

KOBEARODLT said:

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":nar8p1m3]Let me say these two things first: Hanley is a fantastic ballplayer and I'm a homer for the Rockies.

Now let me say this: I think, given his fielding superiority, I'd take Tulowitzki as my SS if I were starting a team. I may take Hanley and move him to another spot, but Tulo's my SS.

Flame away, you fantasy ******.

Click to expand...

yeah your right who wouldnt take tulo over hanley... ::facepalm:: by the way...tulo has 6 errors whild hanley has 9 erros, not that big of a difference. And i dont even play fantasy, hanley is just the better player flat out.

and for my NL MVP i would have to go albert, prince, hanley, than braun

Click to expand...

Tulo has 317 assists to Ramirez's 250 so far this year. And in 2007 (when he last played the full year) he had 561 to Ramirez's 392. Think he gets to a few more balls than Hanley? I do. But, again, I'm just being a homer. Hanley Ramirez is a seriously great ballplayer. I'd just move him to another position and put Tulo at SS, that's all.[/quote:nar8p1m3]

I know defense stats are still not fully fleshed out, but according to UZR/150 which is a well respected defensive stat, tulo has only played a little bit better than hanley in defense this year. Last year, they were pretty much identical. So in recent years, they don't seem too far off and with hanleys offense, i dont think you can argue for Tulo no matter how big of a homer you are. It is worth noting though that in 2007 Tulo was a great defensive ss and hanley was pretty bad, so I'd say Tulo does have a much higher ceiling for defense.

dooly said:

I know defense stats are still not fully fleshed out, but according to UZR/150 which is a well respected defensive stat, tulo has only played a little bit better than hanley in defense this year. Last year, they were pretty much identical. So in recent years, they don't seem too far off and with hanleys offense, i dont think you can argue for Tulo no matter how big of a homer you are. It is worth noting though that in 2007 Tulo was a great defensive ss and hanley was pretty bad, so I'd say Tulo does have a much higher ceiling for defense.

Click to expand...

Very interesting. This is the first I've heard of UZR, but I love to learn new things. I'm having trouble finding good explanations/rankings for this stat, but I did see something that said that at the end of June this year, Ramirez had a UZR of 0.5, but Tulo had 2.5. That seems a huge difference, but I can't extrapolate without better info. Can you recommend a site?

No one noticed? The guy watching every Marlins game did, trust me.

Besides, with all that hype in Spring Training about the extra 20-30 lbs., I was expecting at least 30 home runs by now.

I'll gladly take the high average, though. :lol:

Mighty Bombjack said:

dooly said:

I know defense stats are still not fully fleshed out, but according to UZR/150 which is a well respected defensive stat, tulo has only played a little bit better than hanley in defense this year. Last year, they were pretty much identical. So in recent years, they don't seem too far off and with hanleys offense, i dont think you can argue for Tulo no matter how big of a homer you are. It is worth noting though that in 2007 Tulo was a great defensive ss and hanley was pretty bad, so I'd say Tulo does have a much higher ceiling for defense.

Click to expand...

Very interesting. This is the first I've heard of UZR, but I love to learn new things. I'm having trouble finding good explanations/rankings for this stat, but I did see something that said that at the end of June this year, Ramirez had a UZR of 0.5, but Tulo had 2.5. That seems a huge difference, but I can't extrapolate without better info. Can you recommend a site?

Click to expand...

Yea sure, UZR/150 is a stat that fangraphs releases on their website now. The definition on their website is

UZR/150 (ultimate zone rate per 150 games): The number of runs above or below average a fielder is, per 150 defensive games

The difference isn't that big between the 2 this year and last.

Here is a more in depth analysis of the stat
part 1 http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... 3-03-14_0/
part 2 http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... 3-03-21_0/

A more recent explanation and comparison with the +/- system:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.p ... t_speak/#3

dooly said:

Mighty Bombjack said:

dooly said:

I know defense stats are still not fully fleshed out, but according to UZR/150 which is a well respected defensive stat, tulo has only played a little bit better than hanley in defense this year. Last year, they were pretty much identical. So in recent years, they don't seem too far off and with hanleys offense, i dont think you can argue for Tulo no matter how big of a homer you are. It is worth noting though that in 2007 Tulo was a great defensive ss and hanley was pretty bad, so I'd say Tulo does have a much higher ceiling for defense.

Click to expand...

Very interesting. This is the first I've heard of UZR, but I love to learn new things. I'm having trouble finding good explanations/rankings for this stat, but I did see something that said that at the end of June this year, Ramirez had a UZR of 0.5, but Tulo had 2.5. That seems a huge difference, but I can't extrapolate without better info. Can you recommend a site?

Click to expand...

Yea sure, UZR/150 is a stat that fangraphs releases on their website now. The definition on their website is

UZR/150 (ultimate zone rate per 150 games): The number of runs above or below average a fielder is, per 150 defensive games

The difference isn't that big between the 2 this year and last.

Here is a more in depth analysis of the stat
part 1 http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... 3-03-14_0/
part 2 http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/fil ... 3-03-21_0/

A more recent explanation and comparison with the +/- system:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.p ... t_speak/#3

Click to expand...

OK, I have a lot of reading to do, and thanks for putting me onto this.

However, my immediate findings are thus:

From your site:
"It represents the value of a fielder?s performance expressed as runs saved or cost, in comparison to an average fielder (actually in comparison to the mean performance of all fielders) at that position"

From another site:
At the end of June this year, Tulo had a UZR of 2.5 and Ramirez had 0.5


That seems to me that Tulo has played, in my admittedly perfunctory knowledge of this new stat, more than "a little bit better than Hanley"?

Am I wrong?

Well I'm no expert in stats either, I just casually read about fielding stats occasionally (the other popular ones seem to be +/- and RZR), but based on their current UZR/150 tulo has a UZR/150 = 3.8 and hanley UZR/150 = 1.1 . This means they are both "above average" at their positions and tulo has saved 2.7 more runs than hanley throughout the season thus far. To me 2.7 runs through about 2/3 of the season doesnt seem like a big number, but I may be wrong. This is comparing it someone like andrus who has a UZR/150 = 10.1 or Yuniesky Betancourt who has a UZR/150 of -21.9 :shock: . If you are really interested in fielding stats, I would recommend you read the forums on fangraphs and other sabermetrics sites. It seems to be pretty popular notion among those interested in fielding stats that UZR is one of the better stats though. Those first two links are also from 2003, so I'm sure the stat has been modified since then in some ways.

edit: heres an interesting pdf i found in a slideshow presentation style outlining the traditional and new fielding models. Also has fancy equations http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/images/ ... _60min.pdf

forget all these numbers, i think anybody (that is not a rockies fan) would take hanley

KOBEARODLT said:

forget all these numbers, i think anybody (that is not a rockies fan) would take hanley

Click to expand...

at 3B. Or CF. Hell that guy could pretty much play anywhere, no? I still want Tulo at SS.

I'm such a homer!

Pine Tar said:

Wow this sold for almost 700 bucks 687 actaully.
03 Bowman Chrome Hanley Ramirez auto rc gold refractor

Click to expand...

A little OC but i'd buy that in a heartbeat