MUST READ 2001 Albert Pujols Bowman Chrome Rc MUST READ

itsinthegrade · Sep 30, 2009

I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.

Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

Mighty Bombjack · Sep 30, 2009

Whatever happened to cardcop, anyway?

200lbhockeyplayer · Sep 30, 2009

Considering that unnumbered refractors are surfacing a lot recently, this is no shock.

It's been assumed for years that these have been leaking out so anything is possible.

All of that said, this is hearsay and nothing more at this point.

ThoseBackPages · Sep 30, 2009

interesting. will these go the way of the Star Jordans? Remember how valuable those were?

brouthercard · Oct 1, 2009

I don't get it- are you saying they somehow obtained unsigned copies of the chrome pujols and autographed them and put the sticker on the back and called them real?

Or are you saying that they have the technology to print the card out on a chrome sheet and produce multiple copies?

schmidtfan20 · Oct 1, 2009

first off BGS grades anything and they have in the past graded two cards both numbered 5/500 and PSA's grading
does not authenticate the autograph it just grades the card. If you wanted it authenticated that is different and
if you were faking cards you would rather have it graded NOT authenticated.

and so far there is no proof at all on this.

Kevin

predatorkj · Oct 1, 2009

itsinthegrade said:
I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.

Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

You post this on a message board where we discuss things and tell us not to debate it?I understand your point and its a pretty good one but why the hell can't we discuss it?

justinmandawg · Oct 1, 2009

predatorkj said:
itsinthegrade said:

I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.

Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

Click to expand...

You post this on a message board where we discuss things and tell us not to debate it?I understand your point and its a pretty good one but why the hell can't we discuss it?

Soylent Green is people.

predatorkj · Oct 1, 2009

justinmandawg said:
predatorkj said:

itsinthegrade said:

I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.

Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

Click to expand...

You post this on a message board where we discuss things and tell us not to debate it?I understand your point and its a pretty good one but why the hell can't we discuss it?

Click to expand...

Soylent Green is people.

That went way over my head.... :?

Donutme · Oct 1, 2009

Soylent Green is people !!!

Awesome ! Put the youngsters to bed with that one ! LOL ....

They will always Grade PUJOLS ....

Just maybe not the Fleer Auto RC that is in every other Pujols .... Does this look Real ... Auto .. Thread !

predatorkj · Oct 1, 2009

Donutme said:
Soylent Green is people !!!

Awesome ! Put the youngsters to bed with that one ! LOL ....

They will always Grade PUJOLS ....

Just maybe not the Fleer Auto RC that is in every other Pujols .... Does this look Real ... Auto .. Thread !

Some kind of Dr. Suess stuff?

Donutme · Oct 1, 2009

predatorkj said:
Donutme said:

Soylent Green is people !!!

Awesome ! Put the youngsters to bed with that one ! LOL ....

They will always Grade PUJOLS ....

Just maybe not the Fleer Auto RC that is in every other Pujols .... Does this look Real ... Auto .. Thread !

Click to expand...

Some kind of Dr. Suess stuff?

LOL

predatorkj · Oct 1, 2009

Donutme said:
predatorkj said:

Donutme said:

Soylent Green is people !!!

Awesome ! Put the youngsters to bed with that one ! LOL ....

They will always Grade PUJOLS ....

Just maybe not the Fleer Auto RC that is in every other Pujols .... Does this look Real ... Auto .. Thread !

Click to expand...

Some kind of Dr. Suess stuff?

Click to expand...

LOL

After looking it up on google...you'll have to forgive me.Not my cup of tea.

itsinthegrade · Oct 1, 2009

predatorkj said:
itsinthegrade said:

I just was told that Kevin Burge's crew has counterfiet thats right I said COUNTERFIET 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols Signed Rc's.

I know for a FACT that at least 3 have got letters of rejection from Jsa. I know at the Philly show last weekend. Psa, Bgs & Sgc refused to grade slab & authenticate them also.

Bgs wont slab them because the numbering is wrong, Psa wont because the signature wont pass & Sgc wont slab them because they cant pass authentication.

I also kow that Bgs slabed a couple of them in the pass but I dont have a # of how many. I dont if know Psa has slabbed any but its a possibility.

I was told that they do have the sticker on them. I was told the dead give away is the the fake auto's doesnt have a true 2001 signature that the coutherfieters signed the card in a later style.

Its sad that these scum bags have tarnished the greatest modern day card. I feel & many other people in the industry that they have a person on the inside at Topps. That would help explain how they get all those NFL photo shoot cards.

This topic isnt open for debate. You want to dismiss my claim thats fine but you were warned.

Best regards!

Click to expand...

You post this on a message board where we discuss things and tell us not to debate it?I understand your point and its a pretty good one but why the hell can't we discuss it?

My point is I'm not going to answer ? like:

How do you know?

Give me proof?

Who told you?

I know what I know & I'm sharing info with people on here so they are aware of this. I'M not debating it becuase I know its true. So discuss all you want I have no problem with that but I wont get brought into a message board joust on this topic. Like I said if you doubt me thats fine but you all been warned.

Best regards!

Bob Loblaw · Oct 1, 2009

I just heard that Upper Deck is going out of business.

Don't discuss it.

::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

Burge is capable of anything; this hobby is shady. Buyer beware.

leatherman · Oct 1, 2009

I have been passing this information along to a few people for the last few years. I never chose to divulge it on the Beckett boards because of their moderating procedures.

Along with the 2001 Bowman Chrome, they have also forged signatures on the 2001 SPx auto and the 2001 Topps Reserve. Quite simply, there were too many of the BC and SPx cards coming back with 8s and 9s on the auto grade for their liking. Solution: they wiped it clean and signed it themselves with a Lumocolor pen. Remember what the SPx autos looked like when they first came out, all bubbly and with gaps? Look at ANY other 2001 SPx auto of a lesser player and you will see the gaps in the flow of ink.

I was shown these at a show in 2005 (I remember because I just got a bunch of Billy Butler Topps Chrome autos back from BGS - not Burge, but someone who told me that had learned the tricks from Burge). He was only interested in my BGS 8.5 1994 SP Arod rookies, which he bought and subsequently trimmed and resubmitted them to BGS. I saw him at a show the next month and he had 3 BGS 9s and 2 8.5s from those cards. He also showed me unsigned copies of both the BC and SPx copies of the Pujols autos, which he told me he was submitting to BGS. I saw those cards in slabs the next month, and the cards were in BGS 9.5 holders with 10 autos (the first 10 auto I had ever seen on an SPx).

The fake signatures are easily recognizable, as they are very loopy compared to the actual signatures on legit cards. Here is a legit on top and a fake beneath it:

The 2001 Topps Reserve are a little different. If you remember, Topps put an unautographed card in a PSA slab and then put an autographed "flip" in the tray above the card. Well, in the RETAIL packs, there were actually signed copies of the cards (numbered TRA3 instead of 103) and are EXTREMELY rare and much more valuable. These trimmers would by the PSA slabbed versions for $200ish, crack the unautographed cards out of the slab, sign them, and then list them on ebay so that people would be duped into thinking these were the rarer RETAIL versions. The retail version has the Topps Certified Autograph stamp; those without those stamps are most likely forgeries (save a few that have been legitimately signed by Pujols in person, but I'm not willing to touch those).

If you look long enough, you can see that all three of these cards were signed by the same forger, as the signatures on all three issues are exactly the same.

I simply won't put any of the three cards into my collection because of what I saw with my own eyes.

David

Topnotchsy · Oct 1, 2009

leatherman said:
I have been passing this information along to a few people for the last few years.....

David

Thanked (though I wish you'd passed this along to me earlier.) I've been saying for years that anyone who remembers what the 2001 Pujols Chrome Auto's used to look like knows that something is up since you could not find a clean when back in 2001-2002.

Bruin7 · Oct 1, 2009

IF this is true, I wouldn't be too surprised. They had so many of those that were't redeemed that they backdoored them.

Allen

Bob Loblaw · Oct 1, 2009

http://www.sportscardsuncensored.com/20 ... fakes.html

clarkfan · Oct 1, 2009

I knew of people altering the numbers on the back but hadn't really looked into the possibility of the autograph being forged or wiped away as well. Just doing a random search on ebay, you can definitely see a big difference in the signatures, both in strength & style, on many that are on ebay, either currently or completed. I'm curious of the percentage of fakes on the market, most undetected I'm sure.

Sad truth, a good many of them probably are alterered in some way. $4500 a card will make even the honest person consider cheating. I'm glad I've never had enough money to afford a card like that anyway, I won't ever have to worry about buying a fake. When you have to worry about buying a fake, even when its slabbed, you know the hobby isn't looking good.

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