How do you know if they are real??

Hello,
I have found a pretty unique opportunity to purchase some very nice Vintage cards.
However, they would cost a considerable amount which I would be financing so
I am frightened by the fact that it is possible that I send them in for grading and they
come back as ungradeable or counterfeit or something. Would anyone be able to share
some advice on how to spot counterfeits? I'm confident the current seller is not trying
to intentionally rip someone off, but he doesn't really know the complete history of these
cards. All he knows is that an elderly woman brought him the cards saying her husband
had passed away and she wanted to know what he would give her for them. He ended
up buying them and is selling off the majority of what he purchased. I have seen them and they look real to me, but I am inexperienced when it comes to cards this old.
Thanks in advance for any comments!

Here is the list that is for sale:
1952 Topps Mickey Mantle RC
1941 PLAY BALL TED WILLIAMS
1887 Allen & Ginter N28 Adrian Anson
1887 Allen & Ginter N28 Timothy Keefe
JOHN CLARKSON 1887 1888 N28 GINTER ALLEN GINTERS
1886 1888 ALLEN & GINTER A16 CHARLES COMISKEY
1887 Allen & Ginter N28 Mike Kelly
1887 Allen & Ginter N28 William Ewing
1887 N28 Allen & Ginter Baseball JOHN WARD
1934-36 Diamond Stars # 9 Mickey Cochrane (Tigers)
1933 GOUDEY #207 MEL OTT
1933 Goudey - Mel Ott #127 HOF - GIANTS
1933 Goudey #119 Rogers Hornsby
LARRY NAP NAPOLEON LAJOIE Goudey #106
1938 Goudey HANK GREENBERG Detroit Tigers #253
1938 Goudey BOB FELLER Rookie #264 Indians
1938 Goudey #277, TIGERS: Hank Greenberg
1938 GOUDEY JIMMY FOXX #273 RED SOX HOF
R320 1934 Goudey Baseball-#61 Lou Gehrig, Yankees
1933 #1 Tyrus TY Cobb Sport Kings Goudey Baseball Card
GOUDEY SPORT KINGS GOLF NO 38 BOBBY JONES
1933 Sport Kings # 35 " KNUTE ROCKNE "
1933 Sport Kings # 6 " JIM THORPE "
Bowman 1952 Stan Musial #196
1952 Bowman #101 Mickey Mantle, Yankees
1938 Goudey 274 Joe DiMaggio
1938 Goudey #250 Joe DiMaggio
1938 Goudey HANK GREENBERG Detroit Tigers #253
1938 GOUDEY JIMMY FOXX #273 RED SOX HOF
1938 Goudey 249 Jimmie Foxx
1933 Goudey 223 Dean St.L NL
1933 Goudey Jimmie Foxx #29
1933 Goudey 154 Jimmie Foxx
1934 Goudey #6 Dizzy Dean
1909 T206 Cy Young Piedmont Tobacco
1909-11 T206 Piedmont Tris Speaker
1949 Bowman #50 Jackie Robinson Dodgers HOF
1941 Play Ball #13 Jimmie Foxx
D304 1911-1914 General Baking Co. Christy Mathewson
D304 1911-1914 General Baking Co. Christy Mathewson
1911 D304 Brunners Butter Krust Cy Young
HONUS WAGNER RARE WEBER BAKERY CARD
1950 BOWMAN JACKIE ROBINSON #22
1913 National Game Christy Mathewson
1913 National Game Honus Wagner
1916 (M101-4) Sporting News Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Nap Lajoie
1909-1911 T206 Sweet Caporal Ty Cobb
NAP LAJOIE 1909-1911 T206 OLD MILL
1930 Chicago Herald & Examiner Babe Ruth
1933 DeLong Gum Mickey Cochrane
1909 E95 Philadelphia Caramel Honus Wagner HOF
1909-11 American Caramel E90-1 EDDIE PLANK
1909 E95 Phila. Caramel Chief Bender
1909-11American Caramel E90-1 CHRISTY MATHEWSON
1909 Ty Cobb (Detroit) E90-1 Amer. Caramel
1887 N172 Old Judge Dan Brouthers
1887 N172 Old Judge Tim Keefe
1887 N172 Old Judge Cap Anson
1887 N172 Old Judge King Kelly
1927 W560 WALTER JOHNSON

If you are truly "inexperienced" with vintage...avoid this lot. If this were real, it would be extremely expensive, and without any knowledge of vintage you could take a serious bath with a batch of reprints.

Can you post a photo/scan of any of these?

That said, I find this lot extremely hard to believe. All top tier cards, all sets known...yet no one involved (all three parties) appear to have any knowledge of vintage. Something doesn't add up.

Do you have scans of these items? Its easier to judge if they are real or reprints by the scans? Is this an auction? In my opinion I would walk away because some of those cards in that lot are very hard to come by and very expensive with little to no experience in vintage cards you are more likely going to get burned.

I do not have the cards in my possession so I cannot post any scans.
I do know that this is only a portion of the lot that was purchased and that
some serious collectors as well as a former MLB player have purchased some
of the other cards that came with this lot. For example, the lot actually had
8 of the '52 Mantle's in it. What I have been considering is buying a couple
of them and sending them off for grading to see what happens. This is not
an auction. The cards are in the possession of a guy who owns a large complex
where things like gun shows, flea markets, and war memorabilia shows are held.
This is how he came to find the cards as the elderly lady whose husband passed
away came there knowing he might be interested in buying them and she just
wanted some cash and didn't really know exactly what she had. The guy who
purchased them isn't into baseball cards. He just knew he had an opportunity
to buy and flip them to make some cash to purchase more Civil War relics which
he collects.

200lbhockeyplayer said:

I find this lot extremely hard to believe. All top tier cards, all sets known...yet no one involved (all three parties) appear to have any knowledge of vintage. Something doesn't add up.

Click to expand...

Bingo. All HOF'ers, too. The N172 list is an amazing collection on its own. My guess is the N172 Anson just happens to be the "In Uniform" variation.

To the OP:

I realize you don't have the cards, but if you can get a few scans or pics, please post them. Not one of every card, just a good sample size featuring various sets.

I guess like they say "if it seems to good to be true then it probably is"
Here is something else I didn't mention. The collection also contained a
1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth rookie card which he is keeping to will
to his kids. He told me that since there are only like 10 of these known
to exist that he wasn't parting with it.

What I may end up doing is to try to see if he will let me send them off
for grading then sell them for him for a commission. That would definitely
be the safest route for me to take.

tdkjlk said:

he doesn't really know the complete history of these
cards.

Click to expand...

tdkjlk said:

The guy who purchased them isn't into baseball cards. He just knew he had an opportunity
to buy and flip them to make some cash

Click to expand...

tdkjlk said:

The collection also contained a
1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth rookie card which he is keeping to will
to his kids. He told me that since there are only like 10 of these known
to exist that he wasn't parting with it.

Click to expand...

The guy seems to know nothing about cards, yet he knows about the Baltimore News Ruth? That is a HUGE red flag, imo. Not to mention the Ruth is just another key hobby card added to a seemingly amazing list.

I know, I know....probably why I posted here to have some folks knock some sense into me.

Supposedly he had no idea about the Baltimore News Ruth....he just knew of Babe Ruth obviously so he knew it was worth some cash. It wasn't until he brought in some knowledgeable card people that he found out just how valuable the collection was.

I still feel like I should investigate this further just in case. I would hate to find out later
that I passed up an opportunity of a lifetime.

jay1065 said:

tdkjlk said:

he doesn't really know the complete history of these
cards.

Click to expand...

tdkjlk said:

The guy who purchased them isn't into baseball cards. He just knew he had an opportunity
to buy and flip them to make some cash

Click to expand...

tdkjlk said:

The collection also contained a
1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth rookie card which he is keeping to will
to his kids. He told me that since there are only like 10 of these known
to exist that he wasn't parting with it.

Click to expand...

The guy seems to know nothing about cards, yet he knows about the Baltimore News Ruth? That is a HUGE red flag, imo. Not to mention the Ruth is just another key hobby card added to a seemingly amazing list.

Click to expand...

tdkjlk said:

I still feel like I should investigate this further just in case. I would hate to find out later
that I passed up an opportunity of a lifetime.

Click to expand...

Definitely investigate some more. It would be great to hear of such a collection being discovered. As I said before, do whatever you can (legally ) to post a few scans or pictures.

That list is waaaaay to good to be true, a Baltimore Ruth :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: (there are fewer than 10 known to exist and this guy has one! I am half suprised that a t206-wagner isn't in the lot as well. It seems that every key card in the hobby is in that lot. Something smells fishy.

For a sale like this, agree on a price with the seller on the condition that the cards get slabbed by PSA. Then have him pay to slab them all. If they come back real, add the fees he paid to the total you will pay him. Just be sure to discuss what you will do if some of the stuff doesn't slab.

For those of you asking for scans/pictures, it looks like I cannot get an appointment
with the seller until sometime next week

Run far away from this as fast as you can. If real, that's an amazing list of cards. Hell, I'd be happy to own just one or two cards from that list. This screams too good to be true.

Nothing's too good to be true. Live the dream boys.

How much are the cards?

tdkjlk said:

For those of you asking for scans/pictures, it looks like I cannot get an appointment
with the seller until sometime next week

Click to expand...

At least the seller is giving you the opportunity to examine the cards further. Looking forward to the results.

Warrens All Stars said:

Nothing's too good to be true. Live the dream boys.

How much are the cards?

Click to expand...

That is what I am waiting to find out. The seller is tied up with a large event
this weekend and told me he will put some thought to a price and get back
with me early next week.
I wish I could get my hands on them now as PSA is going to be in Chicago this weekend
and I could drive them there easily.

Well, we may never find out if they are real or not as I am starting to shy away.
He told me that someone came in and gave him $20,000 cash for some of them yet
he couldn't even tell me (over the phone) how many of them were bought. He also
knows that I would be selling most of them so he told me that he wants to sell them
to a collector and not someone who is out to make money off of them. He told me
if that were the case then he would just do that himself....which makes no sense to
me as that is exactly what he is doing. He told me he bought them for $15k and is
up to $90k in sales so how is that not making money off them??? I'm just not liking
a lot of things I am hearing so I think I am just going to take the advice of a lot of
you and RUN. I might go buy a few of the cheaper ones to send in for grading out
of curiousity though. Thanks to all of you for responding and sorry I couldn't end
up telling a great story about a rare find, but I'm not in financial position to gamble

Well thanks for the update. for some reason people blab about things they don't have. Makes them feel important (to themselves)

That is probably the best decision you have made in your entire collecting life. Good on you and I agree with what All Stars said, People have a habit of talking about things that they don't have. There are so many red flags on the play I would stay far away from anything that guy has or pretends to have. He sure knows a lot about those cards for someone who says he knows nothing about them. Take care and good luck in your collecting!