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Un-numbered refs that were back doored/stolen. This idiot has a bunch of them yet is allowed to keep selling them.darrend505 said:
011873 said:As long as people keep buying them the more will show up.
Problem are collectors who dont know what they are and player collectors who DO know what they are yet still buy them.
Plain and simple, here it goes folks, THEY ARE STOLEN, YOU ARE BUYING STOLEN PROPERTY.
mlbfan10 said:011873 said:As long as people keep buying them the more will show up.
Problem are collectors who dont know what they are and player collectors who DO know what they are yet still buy them.
Plain and simple, here it goes folks, THEY ARE STOLEN, YOU ARE BUYING STOLEN PROPERTY.
I'm interested in hearing the reasons why you think these are stolen? (This really is a serious question)
link? or is this just hearsay011873 said:The cards were stolen from Topps by a worker.
They are not authorized by Topps to be sold.
They were replacements which were meant to be destroyed.
If Topps actually felt a need to make these public, they would have been "Vaulted" on ebay where Topps could "legally" sell these.
ideal0024 said:I thought the "official" Topps response was that they were fakes?
DWright5 said:I don't know how they got out, stolen, given away to employees,...whatever.
What they are are the extras that are made to be replacements. When you send a card in to be replaced, they would print the number of the card you sent in for replacement on one of these blanks and send them back to you. Thereby not changing the print run. The one you sent in would be destroyed.
These ones being out and unnumbered are in addition to the stamped print run cards, so there is no telling how many of the /199, or /50, or /25 cards are out in the market between the numbered and unnumbered ones.
For example, there could be 50 or even 100 of a card out there that is supposed to be /25.
THAT IS THE REASON FOR SERIAL NUMBERING THE CARDS!!!
Me: If you search for "Bowman Gold Refractor" , let's say specifically 2006 to narrow it down - it's amazing how many you'll find that aren't stamped with the serial number.
What's more amazing is how many you'll see graded by Beckett. Some sellers are saying that they are replacements.
Some are calling them Rare Errors. Most people in the hobby are saying they're back-doored or stolen or that the printers made many many extras, and they're getting out into the secondary market that way.
In the past handful of months, it seemed these were limited to the Gold Refractors, but recently there were many auctions for un-numbered xfractors.
I was wondering what Topps' official stance on this was. Also, I'm wondering what other collectors think about this.
The majority of these listings say "Beckett states that these were limited to 50 copies, *(or 10, or 250, depending on the refractor).
As far as I know, Beckett does not "state" that. The real versions were simply serial numbered.
I think as customers and consumers, we deserve some kind of statement from hobby heads/leaders about these cards - as it seems some people are getting took.
Topps Sports: We are aware of these counterfeit refractors and our legal team has taken steps to have the auctions removed.
In addition, our investigators have taken steps to find the source of the problem and see that this occurs far less going forward.
Jeff: Dear friends at Topps -- recently eBay has been populated with a great number of "unnumbered" gold refractors and xfractors from Bowman Chrome/Sterling, especially in great quantities as per this seller tagged here.
Does Topps have an official statement to make on this particular issue of unnumbered refractors?
(inserted link to auctions)
Topps Sports: Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Our investigators are on it right now.
Jeff: So what'dja find out?