When did the market for 90's inserts get so bad?

RudyGayExquisite · Jun 3, 2010

I've been away for nearly 3 years collecting basketball stuff.

With the exception of a few random cards, the last baseball I sold off was my Alex Rodriguez collection after he hit his 500th homerun. I got $400 for his Golden Anniversary Refractor #/5, $500 for a BGS 9.5 Totally Platinum Gold and good money for alot of other rare inserts of his.

Two of my most wanted Arods that I could never find were his Topps Stars Golden Rainbow/5 and the Crusade Red/25. I was never able to find the Crusade but years later picked up the Topps Stars for a very reasonable price.

After it sat in my closet taking up space for over year, I decided I didn't really need it so I tried to sell it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-TOPPS-STARS-GO ... 3a5b4da190

It really depresses me looking through some of the completed auctions and seeing some of the prices. And I'm not talking about just Arod prices, but all players.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Elite-TORCH-Ca ... 53e180b505

I can remember bidding 500, 600, and more on these and being lucky if I was the 5th highest bidder. When and why did things get so bad for these inserts?

DaleMurphyCollector · Jun 3, 2010

My thoughts only as I am no eBay selling wizard.

I think your $99.99 starting price caused most people to ignore. That, combined with people not knowing what the card is, resulted in no bids.

On the dual auto, I agree it's sad as I remember hunting for that very card (I had pulled both an A-Rod and Ripken single auto and wanted the dual to go with them), but was never willing to drop the cash on it. Anyhow, over the years, both guys have a glut of autos on the market and I think we as collectors as a whole are "desensitized" to dual autos since even they are so common to pull nowadays. Ultimately, there's nothing that makes this particular card anymore special than the thousands of similar autos available.

predatorkj · Jun 3, 2010

I am sure its just a fluke. 90's stuff has been hotter as of late. I know I had to drop out of collecting Bagwell so much because I am a bit tight on money but also because his 90's stuff has climbed a bit. Same can eb said of other such inserts. They seemed to have come back a little. Hell...there is a 156 page thread(part two might I add) about them. Trust me...there is still interest.

Jastermereel · Jun 3, 2010

Arod stuff just doesn't sell for huge premiums like some other 90's guys.

LaneyB · Jun 3, 2010

So that was your dual auto. I normally don't collect either guy but I like that card a lot - I just forgot to bid. I will agree with you though in saying that 90's stuff has calmed down greatly.

RudyGayExquisite · Jun 3, 2010

What really gets me is the number of people viewing the auctions.

The Arod Topps Stars had about 8 views in the first 4 days.

I sold off a Durant Exquisite not too long ago and it had 95 views after the first 2 hours and over 1,000 unique views in the 5-day auction period.

sportscardtheory · Jun 3, 2010

eBay is really screwing things up. My views are down all across the board. Trying to sell A-Rod cards right now is not good either. His stuff basically dropped in half or more after last season's debacle. PED users always take a hit when it comes out. I'm holding all my Rodriguez stuff for when he breaks the HR record. At least they will get a spike then. It's not "'90s inserts" that are the culprit here. It's the combination of player, down market and eBay messing everything up.

fkw · Jun 3, 2010

In 10 years you will be saying the same thing about cards from today.

All cards after 1981 will have this exact problem, they are not "true baseball cards" in the sense that Jefferson Burdick described them in the ACC.

"A true collector card will always be included FREE with a product or service of some kind".

They were then naturally used and abused and a high % destroyed over time. Cards thus became rarer naturally over time.
This is natural with any valuable collectible. Beer Cans (1 sold for $20K), Movie Posters (1 sold for 1/2 Million), Hot Wheels, Pez (started eBay), Old Halloween and Christmas stuff, Teddie Bears, Dolls, Comics, Tootsie Toys, Stamps, Coins, Cars, etc.

Cards nowadays ARE the product, they are not true cards. 99.8% are in NRMT+ condition and a high % are hoarded in unopened/unused/unabused condition.

Modern cards will go the same route as so called "Limited Edition" crap like Beanie Babies, Collector Plates, Starting Lineups, Franklin Mint, etc.

I have collected PreWar for over 30 years, and have seen it all.

4 things killed the hobby in the 1980s

#1 Price Guides
#2 removing the product (ie Gum)
#3 3rd party grading
#4 unopened hoarders trying to put their kids through college (byproduct of price guides)

Most serious collectors who collect new stuff, move onto vintage once they figure this out. The earlier they do the less they are put off by modern and the hobby in general.
Vintage hold value because of natural supply and demand, not pseudo rare caused by intentional SP (ie. 1/1) and hype.

Im still interested in Modern, But I dont collect it. Last pack I bought was ca.1983.
Its interesting to see how this one time fun hobby has changed in last 30 years.
Heck, your average 8 years old kid cant afford to buy a single pack of cards now. How can that be good for a hobby that kids dominated for 130 years?

charliehustle · Jun 3, 2010

As a Canseco collector Ive noticed it seems to be harder and harder to find some of his "nicer" or "tougher to pull" 90s inserts. Im still searching for several like 96 Ultra Thunderclap Gold Medallion, 98 Leaf R&S Longevity /50, and one that I still have never seen, the 98 Bowman Chrome Golden Anniversary Refractor /5. It just seems like they have dried up or sellers think the prices on 90s stuff isnt worth listing for some reason. I just dont understand...

-charliehustle

sportscardtheory · Jun 3, 2010

fkw said:
In 10 years you will be saying the same thing about cards from today.

All cards after 1981 will have this exact problem, they are not "true baseball cards" in the sense that Jefferson Burdick described them in the ACC.

"A true collector card will always be included FREE with a product or service of some kind".

They were then naturally used and abused and a high % destroyed over time. Cards thus became rarer naturally over time.
This is natural with any valuable collectible. Beer Cans (1 sold for $20K), Movie Posters (1 sold for 1/2 Million), Hot Wheels, Pez (started eBay), Old Halloween and Christmas stuff, Teddie Bears, Dolls, Comics, Tootsie Toys, Stamps, Coins, Cars, etc.

Cards nowadays ARE the product, they are not true cards. 99.8% are in NRMT+ condition and a high % are hoarded in unopened/unused/unabused condition.

Modern cards will go the same route as so called "Limited Edition" crap like Beanie Babies, Collector Plates, Starting Lineups, Franklin Mint, etc.

I have collected PreWar for over 30 years, and have seen it all.

4 things killed the hobby in the 1980s

#1 Price Guides
#2 removing the product (ie Gum)
#3 3rd party grading
#4 unopened hoarders trying to put their kids through college (byproduct of price guides)

Most serious collectors who collect new stuff, move onto vintage once they figure this out. The earlier they do the less they are put off by modern and the hobby in general.
Vintage hold value because of natural supply and demand, not pseudo rare caused by intentional SP (ie. 1/1) and hype.

Im still interested in Modern, But I dont collect it. Last pack I bought was ca.1983.
Its interesting to see how this one time fun hobby has changed in last 30 years.
Heck, your average 8 years old kid cant afford to buy a single pack of cards now. How can that be good for a hobby that kids dominated for 130 years?

I find the hobby funner than ever and I don't agree with most of this, especially the "It's not a card unless it's free." There are many many great, rare and expensive cards from 1952-2010.

Hullfan · Jun 3, 2010

fkw said:
Heck, your average 8 years old kid cant afford to buy a single pack of cards now. How can that be good for a hobby that kids dominated for 130 years?

Or if they do they are miffed by the fact that they didn't get a rare insert card in the pack. Not sure how many kids read the backs of cards anymore like I did when I was younger.

jdbrak · Jun 3, 2010

Pez dispensers did not start eBay; a broken laser pointer or something did.

BunchOBull · Jun 3, 2010

sportscardtheory said:
I find the hobby funner than ever and I don't agree with most of this, especially the "It's not a card unless it's free." There are many many great, rare and expensive cards from 1952-2010.

But over the course of all collectibles markets, real scarcity, not artificial scarcity, has been king.

donrusscrusademan · Jun 3, 2010

ask my crusade wallet, 90s inserts are still hot :shock:

uniquebaseballcards · Jun 3, 2010

To be fair two auctions is not indicative of an entire market.

RudyGayExquisite said:
I've been away for nearly 3 years collecting basketball stuff.

With the exception of a few random cards, the last baseball I sold off was my Alex Rodriguez collection after he hit his 500th homerun. I got $400 for his Golden Anniversary Refractor #/5, $500 for a BGS 9.5 Totally Platinum Gold and good money for alot of other rare inserts of his.

Two of my most wanted Arods that I could never find were his Topps Stars Golden Rainbow/5 and the Crusade Red/25. I was never able to find the Crusade but years later picked up the Topps Stars for a very reasonable price.

After it sat in my closet taking up space for over year, I decided I didn't really need it so I tried to sell it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1998-TOPPS-STARS-GO ... 3a5b4da190

It really depresses me looking through some of the completed auctions and seeing some of the prices. And I'm not talking about just Arod prices, but all players.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Elite-TORCH-Ca ... 53e180b505

I can remember bidding 500, 600, and more on these and being lucky if I was the 5th highest bidder. When and why did things get so bad for these inserts?

sportscardtheory · Jun 3, 2010

BunchOBull said:
sportscardtheory said:

I find the hobby funner than ever and I don't agree with most of this, especially the "It's not a card unless it's free." There are many many great, rare and expensive cards from 1952-2010.

Click to expand...

But over the course of all collectibles markets, real scarcity, not artificial scarcity, has been king.

Talk to me in 30 to 60 years when people are searching for hard to find cards from the current and past 20 years of the market. I have never understood the whole "artificial scarcity" opinion. Why on earth would intent make any difference 50 years from now. There are 500 Albert Pujols Chrome rookie autos. If he goes down as one of the best ever, do you really believe that people won't want the card because they purposely created 500? That's ludicrous. It always sounds to me like snobbish pre-war collectors trying to validate their collecting habits through manipulative means. If there is 50 of a card in existence, there is 50 of the card in existence no matter what the intent was while producing the card.

predatorkj · Jun 3, 2010

BunchOBull said:
sportscardtheory said:

I find the hobby funner than ever and I don't agree with most of this, especially the "It's not a card unless it's free." There are many many great, rare and expensive cards from 1952-2010.

Click to expand...

But over the course of all collectibles markets, real scarcity, not artificial scarcity, has been king.

Yeah man but scarce is as scarce does. If someone intentionally prints one copy of a card and calls it scarce, while they did do this on purpose, is it not still scarce? I think that is part of the fun of collecting. Being a kid growing up...it was one hell of a crappy time seeing all these cool cards and never being able to own one. Now you can go to a shop or store and pull a card that is super scarce without paying through the nose. Sure the odds are not in your favor but then again, back in the day...back when I was a youngster...they were never in my favor. Now I can pull a card nobody else on earth will own. I don't care what anybody says...thats f'n cool as hell!

I think what gets people so unmotivated these days is everyone seems to drift towards selling more than collecting. Or seems to feel their cards are more of an sellable commoditity than a treasure to be pried from your cold dead fingers. How many of you get hard up for cash and sell some cards? Yep...a whole lot. Why not sell your television or your computer? No...instead the first thing that can go is one of the harder things to replace. You can go into any store in America and buy a new tv or computer. But even finding a card store is hard. Lets just suffice it to say that collecting cards now as opposed to when I was young...well there is a whole lot more upside to it now. I thought long and hard before I came back. There is not a person among any of you who can say that card collecting these days doesn't provide more possible fun or interesting niches or the ability to own things that before, you weren't able to.

uniquebaseballcards · Jun 3, 2010

Yeah, but might I add that scarcity isn't always as important as some people say it is, today its often used to drive sales for investment purposes, but scarcity alone doesn't make a card valuable.

People buy stuff they like, enjoy and feel nostalgic about, scarcity alone impresses only certain people. We all know here that there are plenty of 1/1s that nobody wants or searches for, because 1/1s today aren't exactly scarce - you can easily pick one up right now.

sportscardtheory said:
BunchOBull said:

sportscardtheory said:

I find the hobby funner than ever and I don't agree with most of this, especially the "It's not a card unless it's free." There are many many great, rare and expensive cards from 1952-2010.

Click to expand...

But over the course of all collectibles markets, real scarcity, not artificial scarcity, has been king.

Click to expand...

Talk to me in 30 to 60 years when people are searching for hard to find cards from the current and past 20 years of the market. I have never understood the whole "artificial scarcity" opinion. Why on earth would intent make any difference 50 years from now. There are 500 Albert Pujols Chrome rookie autos. If he goes down as one of the best ever, do you really believe that people won't want the card because they purposely created 500? That's ludicrous. It always sounds to me like snobbish pre-war collectors trying to validate their collecting habits through manipulative means. If there is 50 of a card in existence, there is 50 of the card in existence no matter what the intent was while producing the card.

jgro85 · Jun 3, 2010

I think it mostly depends on the player. A lot of my Ripken stuff that BV's over $20-$30 I can't get more than 1/8th BV for on eBay. There's just soooo many damn cards of Ripken. But, every once in a while I'll sell one for 1/2 BV and it makes up for it I guess.

RudyGayExquisite · Jun 3, 2010

I know alot of people on here don't care for Burbanksportscards, but when they sold off that massive collection a year and a half ago, they caused a huge resurgence in the 90's inserts market. Lots of player collectors and set collectors were finally finding alot of harder to find stuff they could not before. There just isn't anybody listing now, which means lots less lookers, buyers, investors..

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