Selling NM-MT cards on ebay

I think I made this post before, or else I intended to make such a post and never did. Anyway...

1. If you buy a raw card that a seller lists as NM-MT on ebay, and it arrives to you with flaws that you know will keep the card from grading Gem Mint, but still in good enough condition that both PSA and BGS would grade the card out at an 8, which is NM-MT according to both, do you ask for a refund?

2. If you buy a card that a seller lists as NM-MT on ebay, and it arrives to you in a PSA 8 slab (meaning that it is truly a NM-MT card), do you ask for a refund?

In my opinion, in both cases the seller shipped exactly what was promised, a NM-MT card. There is no basis for PayPal to allow a refund in either case, although I am quite certain that they will side with the buyer in both cases (which doesn't make it right, it's just easier for them and costs them less money in the long run).

The problem is that buyers assume that they will have a chance at a Gem Mint card any time they buy a NM-MT card on ebay. If a seller advertises a card as NM-MT on ebay, ships a NM-MT card, and the buyer receives a NM-MT card, there shouldn't be any recourse for a buyer to apply for a refund. However, ebay and PayPal have allowed this to go on, and it will probably go on forever.


David

If I were to be a seller, I'd never make claims on condition. Ever.

If it were already graded, I would include the grade.

A_Pharis said:

If I were to be a seller, I'd never make claims on condition. Ever.

If it were already graded, I would include the grade.

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This. Also, I always state if there are visible flaws.

As a seller, I actually take the few seconds it takes to over look any card that I'm putting up, and if I see any flaws like roller marks, surface scratches, dinged corners, ect.. I just do not sell it. If it's a high dollar card with one or more of these flaws, thats still worth selling, I make full disclosure in the description, and provide a clean enough scan to properly see said flaws. Having said that, I have never had so much as a complain in well over 300 sales.

As a buyer, I'm a bit more lax. However, if I am buying a card that shows no visable flaws in the scan, and is listed as pack fresh (nm-mt) and it shows up with bold surface scratches, creases, or what have you, I am displeased. And depending on the value of said card I may inquire about a return/refund.

It's my opinion that if your selling a card as pack fresh or nm-mt 'out of pack' condition, there should be no visable damage like bold surface scratches, bad corners, creases, ect.. regardless if thats the way you pulled it or despite it being a less than 'rare' occurance with some products.

Do I expect a gem? Certinly not, but I dont expect a card with clear and apparent damage eithor. And although it's probablly opinion, I consider bold surface scratches as damage.


As for # 2, If I bought raw under the assumption that the product description and scan showed no apparent flaws, but received a PSA 8, it would be going back without question. Why? Because it's not what I bought.

The bottom line here is any seller with integrity would not sell damaged goods and then argue it with 'well, thats how it came out of the pack, what you expect a GEM? Suck it up looser, ect.." No, they would offer a proper description including any, clearly visable, flaws. And also provide a scan good enough to capture it.

i agree that i would never mention card quality on an auction since it's rather arbitrary what i consider nm-mt compared to another person.

leatherman said:

I think I made this post before, or else I intended to make such a post and never did. Anyway...

1. If you buy a raw card that a seller lists as NM-MT on ebay, and it arrives to you with flaws that you know will keep the card from grading Gem Mint, but still in good enough condition that both PSA and BGS would grade the card out at an 8, which is NM-MT according to both, do you ask for a refund?

2. If you buy a card that a seller lists as NM-MT on ebay, and it arrives to you in a PSA 8 slab (meaning that it is truly a NM-MT card), do you ask for a refund?

In my opinion, in both cases the seller shipped exactly what was promised, a NM-MT card. There is no basis for PayPal to allow a refund in either case, although I am quite certain that they will side with the buyer in both cases (which doesn't make it right, it's just easier for them and costs them less money in the long run).

The problem is that buyers assume that they will have a chance at a Gem Mint card any time they buy a NM-MT card on ebay. If a seller advertises a card as NM-MT on ebay, ships a NM-MT card, and the buyer receives a NM-MT card, there shouldn't be any recourse for a buyer to apply for a refund. However, ebay and PayPal have allowed this to go on, and it will probably go on forever.


David

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Nrmt/mt is an 8 from bgs or psa plain and simple. I dont think he can just send a slab, because the collector may not want the card slabbed. However, if the card would grade psa 8, you have no claim to return. While you may be able to snake it using paypal rules, that sucks and seller needs some protection. BG

The point is that it doesn't matter what you do or don't do as a seller, you are effectively offering a return policy on any card you sell.

If the buyer wants a gem mint card and either ignores your disclaimers about condition, or wants to evaluate the card himself, all he has to do is file a "condition not as described claim" and his refund is automatic. There is no PayPal investigation team that will look at the card and your description of condition to determine whether the buyer got what was described.

Or, if the buyer is simply remorseful- and shrewd, you're taking the card back when he files a condition-based claim. That's a major risk if you sell during a price spike.

I've seen a lot of people say "I never list a condition in my description." What makes you think this protects you?

asmth312 said:

I've seen a lot of people say "I never list a condition in my description." What makes you think this protects you?

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It doesn't. I would imagine Paypal would view it as trying to hide something.