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schmidtfan20
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Complete game win against one of the best teams in the league. HOF'er? I think you have to talk about it.
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Another post on how ridiculously good Jamie Moyer is
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hofmichael
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He should be in HOF talks but I think unfortunately he will be considered a compiler by the writers.One hell of a ball player though none the less.
Mike
Mike
P_Manning 18
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Moyer > Howard
ThoseBackPages
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Everyone gets into the HOF eventually. just wait it out.
Lovingly,
Andre Dawson
Lovingly,
Andre Dawson
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schmidtfan20
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I mean, the guy is almost 50! How many pitchers in baseball have 1 complete game not to mention 2? AND in the
national league. Not bad for an old man pitching in the 5 spot!
national league. Not bad for an old man pitching in the 5 spot!
All The Hype
Active member
hofmichael said:
That's because he is a compiler.
It's impressive that he is still an effective pitcher at age 47, but he's been a very average pitcher his whole career. He's had two or three very good seasons, but that's out of 24 total seasons, which means he's been average for 21 or 22 seasons.
20+ seasons of average pitching does not make you a Hall of Famer, period.
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schmidtfan20
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anyone here 47? It probably hurts to mow the grass, not to mention pitch complete game wins against the Braves
and Padres. Pitchers have never gotten a fair shake, especially on these boards, to me what Jamie is doing at his
age is FAR more impressive than what any batter is doing, Pujols included. Starting pitchers are involved in every
single play when they are on defense, hitters stand around and might have to run a ball down on occasion. Moyer
even has to get up and swing a bat and run the bases.
Like I said before society loves broken down hitters like Griffey and Frank Thomas, and forgets about the real
athletes like Glavine, Smoltz and Moyer.
and Padres. Pitchers have never gotten a fair shake, especially on these boards, to me what Jamie is doing at his
age is FAR more impressive than what any batter is doing, Pujols included. Starting pitchers are involved in every
single play when they are on defense, hitters stand around and might have to run a ball down on occasion. Moyer
even has to get up and swing a bat and run the bases.
Like I said before society loves broken down hitters like Griffey and Frank Thomas, and forgets about the real
athletes like Glavine, Smoltz and Moyer.
schmidtfan20 said:
Sorry i found this funny. putting Moyer in the same category as Glavine and Smoltz. Like its been said, Moyer is just an average pitcher and always has been. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. And your example of being 47 and it hurting to mow the grass..... Moyer is a professional athlete who gets paid millions of dollars to stay in shape.
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schmidtfan20
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moxacaine said:
you completly missed my point, and Im not sure how you can, oh well.
All The Hype
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schmidtfan20 said:
Moyer is not on the same level as Glavine and Smoltz. Not even close.
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schmidtfan20
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ALL_THE_HYPE said:
What Im saying is that there is more talk about hitters and the hall of fame compared to pitchers who have pitched
for long periods of times and where sucessful the whole way. Andre Dawson spent the last 3 years of his career hitting
.240 and striking out.
All The Hype
Active member
schmidtfan20 said:
I understand your point and I think it's impressive that he has had some success at age 47, but Moyer just isn't going to be a Hall of Famer.
Griffey and Thomas both DOMINATED the Majors for about 10 seasons each and were both pretty good until the tail ends of their respective careers.
Moyer has never been dominant. He has had two or three very good seasons and been average otherwise. He has only made one all-star team in his 24 season career.
Moyer was NEVER one of the best players in the league. The Hall of Fame is for the game's best - as it is it is too watered down.
HoustonTeams4Me
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hofmichael said:
I'll play devil's advocate here as I'm not sold on Moyer being a HOF'er either but wasn't Ripken Jr. kind of a "compiler" also? I mean he didn't really do anything better than anyone else in term's of offense (besides maybe compiling game's started
).... I do notice that in 1991 Ripken Jr. hit an unlikely 34 HR's, why that stands out is because in all 21 season's that Ripken Jr. played he only hit 30+ HR's once...in 91(ewww I won't say it/write it, but I know several reading this may be thinking it...BTW I don't think Canseco named Ripken Jr on his list so you can't go that route ). Anyhow back on topic! Isn't compiling stat's what every player does? Shouldn't longevity be an attribute? I mean there aren't many pitcher's that have played at the level that Moyer has for as long as he has, & if it were easy wouldn't everyone be doing it? I think if Jamie Moyer compiles enough K's, enough Win's, & enough good statistic's together to make his overall career statistic's look like that of a HOF caliber player then by all means Moyer should be inducted into the Hall of Fame! (they can't teach a player longevity)
Edit: I'm a huge fan of Ripken Jr. by the way!
All The Hype
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HoustonTeams4Me said:hofmichael said:
I'll play devil's advocate here as I'm not sold on Moyer being a HOF'er either but wasn't Ripken Jr. kind of a "compiler" also? I mean he didn't really do anything better than anyone else in term's of offense (besides maybe compiling game's started
Anyhow back on topic! Isn't compiling stat's what every player does? Shouldn't longevity be an attribute? I mean there aren't many pitcher's that have played at the level that Moyer has for as long as he has, & if it were easy wouldn't everyone be doing it? I think if Jamie Moyer compiles enough K's, enough Win's, & enough good statistic's together to make his overall career statistic's look like that of a HOF caliber player then by all means Moyer should be inducted into the Hall of Fame! (they can't teach a player longevity)
Edit: I'm a huge fan of Ripken Jr. by the way!
Ripken was also ROY, 2 time Gold Glove, 8 Time Silver Slugger, 2 time MVP, 19 time All Star, and hit over 400 homeruns mostly as a shortstop. He was an elite player at his position for basically his entire career. He was not a compiler as he only played until age 40, he was simply consistent. Oh and he also holds a record that will probably never be broken.
Moyer has never been an elite pitcher, has no accolades or awards other than a single all star appearance.
There's a huge difference between a guy who has been average his entire career and sticks around into his late 40s and a guy who was great for all of his career and had a few bad seasons at the very end of his career.
Jays_Cards
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God, I wish the Red Sox could face him everyday :lol:
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schmidtfan20
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When Moyer sucks, he sucks, but for 8 mil we get an era of 4.56, you guys are paying Lackey 18.8 mil for an era
of 4.65?
of 4.65?
rico08
Active member
Jamie Moyer's success can be attributed to one thing: longevity. Moyer is third with 33 behind Roy Halladay (54) and Livan Hernandez (48) in most complete games for an active pitcher.
If Jamie Moyer were right-handed, he'd be retired.
If Jamie Moyer were right-handed, he'd be retired.
Jays_Cards
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schmidtfan20 said:
Is that the best you can come up with? While I am not a Lackey fan, I HIGHLY doubt his ERA will be anywhere near 4.65 by the end of the year.
