Could someone at the National do me a favor?

Could you go to the Topps vendor booth and ask them why the wording on the back of this card from 2002



is so much different from the wording in 2010 on this card?




I would really love to hear the answer to that one....
Thanks!

To be honest I dont get all the confusion and uproar over the recent wording. All its clearly stating is it isnt from any specific game, for example the front of the card may be a picture from a world series game. They are claiming its not from that game event or season to specifically to cover themselves from lawsuits. Its not as cloak and dagger as people are making it out to be.

nyc3 said:

To be honest I dont get all the confusion and uproar over the recent wording. All its clearly stating is it isnt from any specific game, for example the front of the card may be a picture from a world series game. They are claiming its not from that game event or season to specifically to cover themselves from lawsuits. Its not as cloak and dagger as people are making it out to be.

Click to expand...

Um, in my opinion there is quite a difference between receiving:

1) An authentic game-worn uniform card

2) A Topps Certified memorabilia card

It's not about the specificity of a certain game, it's more about the "game-worn" part of it, in my opinion.

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

To be honest I dont get all the confusion and uproar over the recent wording. All its clearly stating is it isnt from any specific game, for example the front of the card may be a picture from a world series game. They are claiming its not from that game event or season to specifically to cover themselves from lawsuits. Its not as cloak and dagger as people are making it out to be.

Click to expand...

Um, in my opinion there is quite a difference between receiving:

1) An authentic game-worn uniform card

2) A Topps Certified memorabilia card

It's not about the specificity of a certain game, it's more about the "game-worn" part of it, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Yup that was exactly my point.

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

To be honest I dont get all the confusion and uproar over the recent wording. All its clearly stating is it isnt from any specific game, for example the front of the card may be a picture from a world series game. They are claiming its not from that game event or season to specifically to cover themselves from lawsuits. Its not as cloak and dagger as people are making it out to be.

Click to expand...

Um, in my opinion there is quite a difference between receiving:

1) An authentic game-worn uniform card

2) A Topps Certified memorabilia card

It's not about the specificity of a certain game, it's more about the "game-worn" part of it, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Certified memorabilia is a blanket statement. Can be used for Jersey, pants, hat, bat, glove, etc. Uniform is a limited term.

nyc3 said:

To be honest I dont get all the confusion and uproar over the recent wording. All its clearly stating is it isnt from any specific game, for example the front of the card may be a picture from a world series game. They are claiming its not from that game event or season to specifically to cover themselves from lawsuits. Its not as cloak and dagger as people are making it out to be.

Click to expand...

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

It's just a blanket statement. You don't have to worry about Dustin Pedroia, but you do have to worry about some of the high value stuff. If they just put those words on the sketchy event used Jackie Robinson swatches, everyone would lose their mind. However, in order to hide the fact that you're getting a jersey that Jackie Robinson may or may not have worn, they just plaster it on all the cards.

Basically, I'd never expect a Ted Williams MLB swatch ever again unless it explicitly stated: MLB GAME USED. From here on out, you're going to be getting nothing but junk in terms of the historic greats.

GU stuff is problematic. The Ted Williams jersey you're describing could be from the 1989 Old Timers Game if it doesn't say MLB Game Used. While it would be easy for Topps to specifically state the kind of jersey it is and where it came from, we all know Topps is highly unlikely to do this...

pigskincardboard said:

It's just a blanket statement. You don't have to worry about Dustin Pedroia, but you do have to worry about some of the high value stuff. If they just put those words on the sketchy event used Jackie Robinson swatches, everyone would lose their mind. However, in order to hide the fact that you're getting a jersey that Jackie Robinson may or may not have worn, they just plaster it on all the cards.

Basically, I'd never expect a Ted Williams MLB swatch ever again unless it explicitly stated: MLB GAME USED. From here on out, you're going to be getting nothing but junk in terms of the historic greats.

Click to expand...

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

So since thats the case, Everything is game used? That is the facts you are using to argue the point? Where is the contract with topps and mlb for jersey and bat purchasing? The league does not control the sale of team and player owned items, Players own the bats and usually have control over their jersey's. The things you seen were all star jersey's and most likely BP and contracted with Topps as a sponsor for them to use them in products. There are tons of items on the market that do not have MLB holograms and were obtained via charity auctions, players, equip managers and family members. I doubt card companies have contracts with the league to obtain stuff the league has no control or ownership of.

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of Topps-if these were ALL game used, they would still say game used(or game worn uniform). I don't think they would use the blanket statement of "Topps certified memorabilia" if they were in fact ALL game used.

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of Topps-if these were ALL game used, they would still say game used(or game worn uniform). I don't think they would use the blanket statement of "Topps certified memorabilia" if they were in fact ALL game used.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If Topps put out a Ted Williams card that said Game used then you'd have people complaining that it might have been from the old-timers game. Topps probably just switched to the generic form so they don't have to listen to crazy customer accusing them of using non-game worn materials.

All these cards are novelty items, nothing more.

Fandruw25 said:

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of Topps-if these were ALL game used, they would still say game used(or game worn uniform). I don't think they would use the blanket statement of "Topps certified memorabilia" if they were in fact ALL game used.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If Topps put out a Ted Williams card that said Game used then you'd have people complaining that it might have been from the old-timers game. Topps probably just switched to the generic form so they don't have to listen to crazy customer accusing them of using non-game worn materials.

Click to expand...

It's weird how you portrayed that situation. You make Topps seem like the good guy in the situation. I think it costs more for Topps to put in Game Used and they'd definitely prefer to put in other 'used' items. As you said, they don't want to hear it from the collectors, so they changed it to their current label.

I don't think it's the crazy customers as much as the cheap-bastards at Topps.

Maybe if Topps was putting in "MLB GAME USED" material and still hearing it, you'd have a point, but they're not.

They changed the slogan so they could put in just about everything without *lying* to the customer. Rather than being somewhat accountable to what they actually put in (ie. Here's a STADIUM SEAT RELIC / BAT ) they've just broadened the language.

I can see where Topps is coming from on this.

You might have noticed that over the last several years, Topps has added wording on the wrapper, box and cards covering their asses "just in case."

Well heres another one. So if another Manny bat card with cork is put on a card and Manny says it cant be his bat, if worse came to worse and the shat hits the fan, Topps is covered because they claim its "certified memorabilia".....and that could mean several things, not totally that its game used by him.

Now the bench stuff is just wrong. If a bench is used, it should, no, HAS to be labeled as such beccause everyone assumes its a bat.

pigskincardboard said:

Fandruw25 said:

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of Topps-if these were ALL game used, they would still say game used(or game worn uniform). I don't think they would use the blanket statement of "Topps certified memorabilia" if they were in fact ALL game used.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If Topps put out a Ted Williams card that said Game used then you'd have people complaining that it might have been from the old-timers game. Topps probably just switched to the generic form so they don't have to listen to crazy customer accusing them of using non-game worn materials.

Click to expand...

It's weird how you portrayed that situation. You make Topps seem like the good guy in the situation. I think it costs more for Topps to put in Game Used and they'd definitely prefer to put in other 'used' items. As you said, they don't want to hear it from the collectors, so they changed it to their current label.

I don't think it's the crazy customers as much as the cheap-bastards at Topps.

Maybe if Topps was putting in "MLB GAME USED" material and still hearing it, you'd have a point, but they're not.

They changed the slogan so they could put in just about everything without *lying* to the customer. Rather than being somewhat accountable to what they actually put in (ie. Here's a STADIUM SEAT RELIC / BAT ) they've just broadened the language.

Click to expand...

I'm not portraying anyone as good or bad, at least I'm not trying to. Every company has people that will never be happy with the product for whatever reason. In this case you're unhappy because of the wording.

I really don't see anything wrong with broadening the language and honestly I don't think a majority of collectors mind either. Sure a few bitch on message boards, but in the end, product sells and collectors still pick these up on the second hand market for their collections.

Fandruw25 said:

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of Topps-if these were ALL game used, they would still say game used(or game worn uniform). I don't think they would use the blanket statement of "Topps certified memorabilia" if they were in fact ALL game used.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If Topps put out a Ted Williams card that said Game used then you'd have people complaining that it might have been from the old-timers game. Topps probably just switched to the generic form so they don't have to listen to crazy customer accusing them of using non-game worn materials.

Click to expand...

Exactly.Topps does not like to hire people who are collectors.It leaves them open to theft and back dooring.Alot of things that don't make sense is because there is no one working there that knows what collectors want.It is a shame if you ask me.

hofmichael said:

Fandruw25 said:

hail2thevictors said:

nyc3 said:

Marro said:

OR to cover the fact that most items are not game used and most likely game issued items. If a player changes bats mid season and has a few left, Companies will buy it and consider bat rack marks as use when seam and cleat marks are typical for that player. That is a huge difference in value. Adding event to the back also makes me think they use a jersey that a current player wore during a charity event, That adds not much value compared to a gamer with heavy use.

Click to expand...

Now here is the part I love.

What are you basing this on? Please show me where they buy game issued items and place them in cards, because you seem to have this whole story down but yet dont use any facts. Topps and have contracts in place with MLB where they get a certain amount of game used jerseys, are there mistakes that have happened sure. But this wording has seem to have brought out the crazy in people. I have seen as recent as a few months ago where a MLB hologram has made it on a card and when you search the number its game used not game issued.

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the shoes of Topps-if these were ALL game used, they would still say game used(or game worn uniform). I don't think they would use the blanket statement of "Topps certified memorabilia" if they were in fact ALL game used.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If Topps put out a Ted Williams card that said Game used then you'd have people complaining that it might have been from the old-timers game. Topps probably just switched to the generic form so they don't have to listen to crazy customer accusing them of using non-game worn materials.

Click to expand...

Exactly.Topps does not like to hire people who are collectors.It leaves them open to theft and back dooring.Alot of things that don't make sense is because there is no one working there that knows what collectors want.It is a shame if you ask me.

Click to expand...

Topps and other companies probably want people who are not in the hobby. But that policy has not helped backdoor and theft from happening. Donruss did the best thing when it came to game used, They put the picture of the item on the back. And for some items named the game it was used in. They also didnt try and broaden the language to be vague about if it was event or game used. I feel 110% positive that a lot of game used is actually game issued or spring training items. Older players game used is more and more older event stuff like old timers games and such. The costs on older game used is sky rocketing and I dont see a company putting that much out for it much sooner. More and more makes it way into private collections and that is a great thing. Another thing to think about is how much of the game used came from Mastro and now that the FBI case against them is coming to a close. How will that affect the hobby as a whole.