Saw something disgusting at Progressive Field tonight...

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

So as many know I'm on a baseball road trip right now. Tonight was the second to last stadium (you can read about the trip by clicking the link in my sig).

Anyway during the National Anthem there was this guy next to me who REFUSE to stand for it. He was obviously American, it's not like he was foreign or anything. I gave him a somewhat dirty look and he just looked at me shaking his head. He had his young daughter with him and she was standing when it started. The guy pulled her into her seat and told her to sit down.

I just don't get what this guy could have been thinking. I don't usually rant but I wanted I felt like sharing this.

jeffmu · Aug 14, 2010

Firstly, LOVE your avatar as a Mizzou alum of '93 myself, what I tend to think when I've encountered some situations similar to yours is this:
You can't help stupid.

Second, It pains you to see it, but as the father of 3 daughters myself, it provides a great teaching moment for what the anthem is all about, that guy's own daughter is probably very confused right now, and one can only hope she's enlightened to other points of view as well.

docdw25 · Aug 14, 2010

Thought you were setting up an Indians joke. That is pretty pathetic for someone not to stand for the Anthem.

All The Hype · Aug 14, 2010

People don't seem to understand that the National Anthem has absolutely nothing to do with the current president, politics, war, or any sort of political decision. It simply is a song played to respect our nation and to remember that there are bigger things in the world than baseball.

To not stand up for it is spitting in the eyes of the men who gave their lives in the late 1700s to win our freedom, as well as those who have protected it for the last 234 years.

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

ALL_THE_HYPE said:
People don't seem to understand that the National Anthem has absolutely nothing to do with the current president, politics, war, or any sort of political decision. It simply is a song played to respect our nation and to remember that there are bigger things in the world than baseball.

To not stand up for it is spitting in the eyes of the men who gave their lives in the late 1700s to win our freedom, as well as those who have protected it for the last 234 years.

Exactly... That's why I don't get it at all. It's the fact that was so blatant about it that got to me. Even if you aren't from here (it's obvious this guy was) you should at least be respectful and stand, just don't put your hand over your heart. That's why I did at the Blue Jays game.

I regret not saying something to the guy.

cubfan131 · Aug 14, 2010

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

cubfan131 said:
The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

Sweetness · Aug 14, 2010

cubfan131 said:
The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

+1

Wes · Aug 14, 2010

I don't agree with what he did but I would caution against approaching him or causing a scene - you never know the reasoning - no matter how misguided. What if he just lost a child in the war and it's his way of protesting. Again, misguided but I would hate to get in his face over a circumstance that I can't possibly understand.

cubfan131 · Aug 14, 2010

cowboysrule48 said:
cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

I would have more of a problem with him forcing his daughter to sit down. It is one thing to have your opinions but I can't stand it when parents force their beliefs on their kids. If she wants to stand for the national anthem let her.

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

cubfan131 said:
cowboysrule48 said:

cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

Click to expand...

I would have more of a problem with him forcing his daughter to sit down. It is one thing to have your opinions but I can't stand it when parents force their beliefs on their kids. If she wants to stand for the national anthem let her.

I mean I agree with you that it's his right to stand/not stand if he pleases. I just think of all ways to protest this is the one way not to do it. You're right, if he doesn't want to stand for it he doesn't have to. That doesn't make him less of a ****** though.

Canocollector#1 · Aug 14, 2010

Sweetness said:
cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

+1

+2

seitas · Aug 14, 2010

Did you ever think that maybe this guy has some religious convictions that prevent him from saluting the flag? I know that Jehovah's witness cannot salute the flag. I find it ironic that you are upset that this guy exercised his freedom. I salute the flag proudly but also understand that we live in a theocratic society and some people put their religion in front of nationalism. Freedom is awesome and the cornerstone of our culture learn to live and let live and you'll be much happier.

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

seitas said:
Did you ever think that maybe this guy has some religious convictions that prevent him from saluting the flag? I know that Jehovah's witness cannot salute the flag. I find it ironic that you are upset that this guy exercised his freedom. I salute the flag proudly but also understand that we live in a theocratic society and some people put their religion in front of nationalism. Freedom is awesome and the cornerstone of our culture learn to live and let live and you'll be much happier.

That's not that point I'm trying to make... He can't even just stand up and attempt to be respectful? Like I said before, I understand he has the right not to stand, but it still doesn't make it any less pathetic.

rehmus · Aug 14, 2010

cowboysrule48 said:
cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

this is more out of line than what he did. telling someone to find somewhere else to live for their beliefs is pretty much the exact opposite of the founding principles of the country.

as for the anthem itself, you could just as easily say it has nothing to do with those who served to win or maintain our freedom. there is no rule. the lyrics themselves clearly talk about winning freedom, of course, but when a song becomes a true national anthem there are several other connotations added to it that supersede its surface meaning. This is the song of America. If you're pissed with America you can show it by being pissed with this song. It's no different than a flag at this point. The emblems on the flag are relatively meaningless except for the body they signify.

i would even go so far as to say this is a fantastic way to express your discontent with war/economy/president/whatever. no one listens to screaming protests. things such as this speak volumes. the fact that we're even talking about it proves this.

would i have done it? no. but there is absolutely 100% nothing wrong with him doing it. and i agree with the poster who said his only real crime was to force his daughter to do the same.

seitas · Aug 14, 2010

cowboysrule48 said:
seitas said:

Did you ever think that maybe this guy has some religious convictions that prevent him from saluting the flag? I know that Jehovah's witness cannot salute the flag. I find it ironic that you are upset that this guy exercised his freedom. I salute the flag proudly but also understand that we live in a theocratic society and some people put their religion in front of nationalism. Freedom is awesome and the cornerstone of our culture learn to live and let live and you'll be much happier.

Click to expand...

That's not that point I'm trying to make... He can't even just stand up and attempt to be respectful? Like I said before, I understand he has the right not to stand, but it still doesn't make it any less pathetic.

Would you go against a pillar of your religion to appease a group of strangers? I wouldn't; I have stronger convictions than that. I had a friend in elementary school that was JW and could not say the pledge of allegiance and it was sad how much it singled him out. None of the kids understood and thought he was weird. He felt very uncomfortable about it but respected his religion and refused to salute. I believe the great Lou Whitaker also refused to participate in the national anthem.

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

rehmus said:
cowboysrule48 said:

cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

Click to expand...

this is more out of line than what he did. telling someone to find somewhere else to live for their beliefs is pretty much the exact opposite of the founding principles of the country.

as for the anthem itself, you could just as easily say it has nothing to do with those who served to win or maintain our freedom. there is no rule. the lyrics themselves clearly talk about winning freedom, of course, but when a song becomes a true national anthem there are several other connotations added to it that supersede its surface meaning. This is the song of America. If you're pissed with America you can show it by being pissed with this song. It's no different than a flag at this point. The emblems on the flag are relatively meaningless except for the body they signify.

i would even go so far as to say this is a fantastic way to express your discontent with war/economy/president/whatever. no one listens to screaming protests. things such as this speak volumes. the fact that we're even talking about it proves this.

would i have done it? no. but there is absolutely 100% nothing wrong with him doing it. and i agree with the poster who said his only real crime was to force his daughter to do the same.

If there's nothing wrong with what he did then you should feel there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing...

Lancemountain · Aug 14, 2010

Unless its a matter of religion as has been pointed out; I think its pretty lame to not stand for the anthem/remove a hat. A baseball game is no place for a political statement imo.

Standing for the anthem is also about respecting others around you as well.

That said I'm not sure if I've ever seen anyone not stand up, as I generally don't bother myself in others business.

rehmus · Aug 14, 2010

cowboysrule48 said:
rehmus said:

cowboysrule48 said:

cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

Click to expand...

this is more out of line than what he did. telling someone to find somewhere else to live for their beliefs is pretty much the exact opposite of the founding principles of the country.

as for the anthem itself, you could just as easily say it has nothing to do with those who served to win or maintain our freedom. there is no rule. the lyrics themselves clearly talk about winning freedom, of course, but when a song becomes a true national anthem there are several other connotations added to it that supersede its surface meaning. This is the song of America. If you're pissed with America you can show it by being pissed with this song. It's no different than a flag at this point. The emblems on the flag are relatively meaningless except for the body they signify.

i would even go so far as to say this is a fantastic way to express your discontent with war/economy/president/whatever. no one listens to screaming protests. things such as this speak volumes. the fact that we're even talking about it proves this.

would i have done it? no. but there is absolutely 100% nothing wrong with him doing it. and i agree with the poster who said his only real crime was to force his daughter to do the same.

Click to expand...

If there's nothing wrong with what he did then you should feel there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing...

:lol:

cowboysrule48 · Aug 14, 2010

rehmus said:
cowboysrule48 said:

rehmus said:

cowboysrule48 said:

cubfan131 said:

The beautiful thing about this country we have the freedom of speech to express our opinions. Not standing for the national anthem was this man's way of expressing his discontent with the country. There are a lot of things wrong with our country but the freedom to express your opinion is not one of them. Personally I don't stand for God Bless America. It doesn't have to do with a lack of respect for our country or our soldiers but I don't believe in god and I see no point in asking a nonexistent deity to bless our country.

Click to expand...

Well my opinion is that if you can't stand for our National Anthem you can find somewhere else to live. It has nothing to do religion or discontent with the country. It has to do with our freedom and what America stands for. What he did was disrespectful to the country and every person who served to win our freedom. If you aren't happy with the war or the economy or anything else that is not the way to express it.

Click to expand...

this is more out of line than what he did. telling someone to find somewhere else to live for their beliefs is pretty much the exact opposite of the founding principles of the country.

as for the anthem itself, you could just as easily say it has nothing to do with those who served to win or maintain our freedom. there is no rule. the lyrics themselves clearly talk about winning freedom, of course, but when a song becomes a true national anthem there are several other connotations added to it that supersede its surface meaning. This is the song of America. If you're pissed with America you can show it by being pissed with this song. It's no different than a flag at this point. The emblems on the flag are relatively meaningless except for the body they signify.

i would even go so far as to say this is a fantastic way to express your discontent with war/economy/president/whatever. no one listens to screaming protests. things such as this speak volumes. the fact that we're even talking about it proves this.

would i have done it? no. but there is absolutely 100% nothing wrong with him doing it. and i agree with the poster who said his only real crime was to force his daughter to do the same.

Click to expand...

If there's nothing wrong with what he did then you should feel there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing...

Click to expand...

:lol:

Lol it's true!

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