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what if... AL CY

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D

donrusscrusademan

New member
Sep 2, 2009
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a pitcher leads the league in ERA, IPs and Ks, but has a losing record? does that not make him the most dominant?

would be interesting to see what happens if Hernandez loses more than he wins down the stretch but passes the one guy ahead of him in ERA.

CY YOUNG AWARD YES OR NO?
 
C

cjb9421

Active member
Feb 17, 2010
1,973
0
Re: what if...

That makes him a leader in all those categories w/ a losing record.
 
200lbhockeyplayer

200lbhockeyplayer

Active member
Aug 10, 2008
11,049
2
Re: what if...

Voters love wins, especially when the total starts with a '2' and often devalue other categories.

Not saying it's right, but it takes a truly remarkable, unparalleled season for a losing pitcher to win the Cy Young.
 
B

bowmanchromeandorr

New member
May 23, 2010
836
0
Race City USA
Re: what if...

donrusscrusademan said:
a pitcher leads the league in ERA, IPs and Ks, but has a losing record? does that not make him the most dominant?

would be interesting to see what happens if Hernandez loses more than he wins down the stretch but passes the one guy ahead of him in ERA.

CY YOUNG AWARD YES OR NO?
Click to expand...

ask nolan ryan it happened to him in the 70s when he was with the CALIFORNIA angels... i dont think he won it those couple of years it happened to him
 
D

donrusscrusademan

New member
Sep 2, 2009
3,511
0
Re: what if...

200lbhockeyplayer said:
Voters love wins, especially when the total starts with a '2' and often devalue other categories.

Not saying it's right, but it takes a truly remarkable, unparalleled season for a losing pitcher to win the Cy Young.
Click to expand...

yep, I often wonder how far ahead of the pack a (losing) pitcher would have to be to win.. .5 ERA and 50ks ahead of the next best? or maybe he would have to take every other category such as these 5- ERA,WHIP,K,CG,IP..
 
D

donrusscrusademan

New member
Sep 2, 2009
3,511
0
Re: what if...

bowmanchromeandorr said:
donrusscrusademan said:
a pitcher leads the league in ERA, IPs and Ks, but has a losing record? does that not make him the most dominant?

would be interesting to see what happens if Hernandez loses more than he wins down the stretch but passes the one guy ahead of him in ERA.

CY YOUNG AWARD YES OR NO?
Click to expand...

ask nolan ryan it happened to him in the 70s when he was with the CALIFORNIA angels... i dont think he won it those couple of years it happened to him
Click to expand...

yeah those years were on my mind, I went to check them just now and saw that he never lead the league in ERA with Cali .. but lead the league in Ks just about each year
 
200lbhockeyplayer

200lbhockeyplayer

Active member
Aug 10, 2008
11,049
2
Re: what if...

bowmanchromeandorr said:
donrusscrusademan said:
a pitcher leads the league in ERA, IPs and Ks, but has a losing record? does that not make him the most dominant?

would be interesting to see what happens if Hernandez loses more than he wins down the stretch but passes the one guy ahead of him in ERA.

CY YOUNG AWARD YES OR NO?
Click to expand...

ask nolan ryan it happened to him in the 70s when he was with the CALIFORNIA angels... i dont think he won it those couple of years it happened to him
Click to expand...
While Nolan Ryan often led the league in Ks, he rarely came in the top 5 in ERA, and really the only season that could be debated for a missed Cy Young for him is 1973. Of course, Palmer had an amazing record while 3rd in the league, and led the league in ERA.

Personally, I wouldn't really say that poor teams cost Ryan any Cy Youngs.
 
A

andyduke86

New member
Nov 22, 2008
1,929
0
Re: what if...

Wins are irrelevant in evaluating pitchers and most voters are wising up to that fact.

ERA also has its flaws but it's not that horrible of an indicator of individual performance.

Anyways, Felix should be the clear front runner for AL Cy
 
sheetskout

sheetskout

New member
Administrator
Aug 10, 2008
5,385
0
Milwaukee, WI
Re: what if...

Check Ben Sheets 2004. If you can find a more dominating, losing season let me know.

12-14 2.70ERA 34GS 5CG 237.0IP 264SO 32BB

Incidentally he was eight in the Cy Young that season.
 
F

fkw

New member
May 28, 2010
879
0
Kea'au, HI
Re: what if...

How do you lose 20 games with a 1.27 ERA???


Big Ed Walsh of the White Sox did it...

18-20, 1.27 ERA, 258 SO, 7 Shutouts, .82 WHIP
 
James52411

James52411

New member
Administrator
May 22, 2010
4,531
0
Tallahassee, FL
Re: what if...

Felix is excellent, but he pitches in a great pitchers park in a division with only one good offensive team in Texas.
 
U

UMich92

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2008
1,872
45
Re: what if...

The Cy Young award isn't given to the most dominant pitcher. It goes to the most outstanding pitcher. And while that may be splitting hairs and Wins are definitely an overvalued stat, I'll refer you to Coach Edwards. You play to win the game. So yeah, a pitcher having a losing or poor record isn't going to win the Cy IMO.
 
N

nborton

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
3,033
0
Winston-Salem, NC
Re: what if...

Wins are are the worst stat in baseball. Especially in today's game where starting pitchers rarely complete games. Even though it wasn't a great stat in the beginnings of baseball, at least it was better since guys generally pitched more innings per game. I know it's not going to happen, but I'd like to see wins replaced with quality starts. That would be a much fairer way of judging a pitcher.
 
MOFNY

MOFNY

Active member
Aug 9, 2008
4,790
5
East Greenwich, RI
Re: what if...

donrusscrusademan said:
a pitcher leads the league in ERA, IPs and Ks, but has a losing record? does that not make him the most dominant?

would be interesting to see what happens if Hernandez loses more than he wins down the stretch but passes the one guy ahead of him in ERA.

CY YOUNG AWARD YES OR NO?
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely. It is time to abandon W/L as a prominently popular stat.
 
U

UMich92

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2008
1,872
45
Re: what if...

I have a problem with Quality Starts as a stat as the minimum requirements, 6 IP and 3 ER, equate to a 4.50 ERA. There's nothing quality about a 4.50 ERA. Maybe if the requirements were tightened, say 7 IP and 3 ER (3.86 ERA), I'd be ok with it but not as they are now.
 
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