Can I ask you folks a question?

I have been watching the discussion about the Razor Rookie Retro breaks and have watched several breaks via Andrew and then a few other videos on Youtube. It seems that, through the typical banter on the boards here and on blowout, that everyone is SOOOO wrapped up in resale value and not so much about hitting a really nice card.

I remember that it used to be that when you hit a really nice card, you were excited about the card. Even if you were going to sell it, you really enjoyed the pull. With this product, however, it seems that too many people are jumping on the "what does it sell for?" bandwagon and it feels that everyone is worried about what they are going to get back on their investment? Is that why this product is being busted? For the big flip? Or is it more for the big pull?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this and I may use some of them in my article I am writing. Thanks for anything you can share on this.

B

Late night chat tonight b-lan?

I think it's just the nature of the cards in the boxes and the nature of the product. It's graded rookie cards, which imo are the best sellers on eBay, so buyers would immediately look to resell to turn a profit.

Brian

I agree with Zan.

boxbreaker44 said:

Late night chat tonight b-lan?

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I could if you guys are interested.

I think that when boxes became too expensive for the average kid, or even average normal person who limits themselves to a modest monthly "me" budget, a transition occurred which turned box breaking into an investment because at that point people who stuck with the hobby had to increase their hobby budget.

I would use the word gambling instead of an investment, but technically you do get a return out of every box, so I'll say investment. That's when the "joy of the pull" began to die. It was a slow, gradual death, but that death seems to be near complete now.

blanning71 said:

boxbreaker44 said:

Late night chat tonight b-lan?

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I could if you guys are interested.

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Do it.

Weimer said:

blanning71 said:

boxbreaker44 said:

Late night chat tonight b-lan?

Click to expand...

I could if you guys are interested.

Click to expand...

Do it.

Click to expand...

He'll Ive got no life lets do it.

i think most of the people who buy this product because of the price are out there to make back double what they paid. whenever you have high priced product like this. it seems like all your flippers come out and play

ok I'm up and running

password is national

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/homer-s-to-hat-tricks

need more feedback.

People have just become so disenfranchised with the element of sportscards that involves collecting and being amazed at a great pull. It has become a mental pathway that goes something like this.


Big pulls from inexpensive products -> Higher costs for big pulls causes higher price for packs -> Higher price for packs lures some expectation of profit from resale -> Profit from resale drives initial sales for manufacturers which funds higher-priced pulls and packs -> Still rising pack cost leads to higher expectation of profit and more people getting into it for just the profit aspect.

This all combines with the sad fact that the majority of the people out there discussing sportscards are people who are trying to educate themselves to get a better grip on the "business". There are a bunch of collectors out there, but I don't think you see a good percentage of them online.

Think back, what did people in the 50's do with Mantles? What did people in the 1910's do with tobacco cards?

Yeah, they flipped them, put them into bike spokes and pinned them to dorm walls. Like many things, $$ has driven a hobby to the point where people even ask questions regarding how to turn it into a way to make a living, and that really scares me.

serving4theking said:

I think that when boxes became too expensive for the average kid, or even average normal person who limits themselves to a modest monthly "me" budget, a transition occurred which turned box breaking into an investment because at that point people who stuck with the hobby had to increase their hobby budget.

I would use the word gambling instead of an investment, but technically you do get a return out of every box, so I'll say investment. That's when the "joy of the pull" began to die. It was a slow, gradual death, but that death seems to be near complete now.

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I agree

Everyone and their brother thinks theyre a flipper who knows what theyre doing and is going to rake in the money by opening boxes

It also has alot to do with the economy too...when its good, people care more about pulls...when its bad, people have buyers remorse over spending $150 and getting nothing back

Oh, and to quote a RRR case video:

"How do you expect me to make my money back with THIS? I am DONE with Razor!"

I've said it a thousand times - these people obviously have never been to a casino or bought a scratch ticket.

"This thing says 1 in 4.56 tickets will be a winner, but my winner only gave me my $5 back when I spent $25 on the 5 I bought! This game is such ********! Damn liars! I think we should start a suit, guys."

i think it depends...are you a collector who buys maybe 1-2 boxes/cases per year? then sure, i think you 'enjoy' the hobby more + love the experience of seeing new card designs + opening packs.

are you a sports card dealer (esp. a full time 1)? then obviously, you need to think of ROI first + foremost when busting any product. sure, you may 'enjoy' ripping the packs, but if you paid say $15k for RRR + get say $3k in return? ouch

i also think w/high end products, people *expect* a big hit...thinking 'hey, i just paid $200-600 for this PACK, so of course I want a colored patch auto #/1 dual logoman that will sell for $20k'. i think people forget that wax, esp. high end wax, is a GAMBLE. like in vegas- yes, we all want to go w/$100 + come home w/$50k, but the reality for the average joe? you lose your shirt. oddly, people seem to 'get' that vegas gambling is 'fun' + so they don't seem to *expect* to 'win'...yet w/wax, people seem to *expect* to win. why is that?

i also think all the parallels, autos, patches, etc. (+ of course rising pack prices) has diluted the 'fun' (+ affordability) of the hobby. back in my day (when packs were < $1 lol yes, i'm an old), the FUN was the gum + the cards. nothing more, no fancy refractors blingy bling patch superfractors etc....JUST CARDS...+ for a few bucks, i had a great time. i don't think kids today get that experience- the cheapest pack i see @ my card shops is usually $10. i see kids open up packs + they toss the base cards as 'junk'. then again, 'back in my day,' FUN was riding your bike...now, FUN is 'must have iphone, wii, xbox, etc.' for 12 yos.

society's become more disposable. the economy sucks + people often 'gamble' their wax $ by using ccs which creates pressure to get the 'big hit.'

First let me start by saying that I love this product. I know there are many, many people out there that are truely out to make buck in this hobby. This is not the product for you. If I had the extra money to just blow I would certainly take a shot at a case. The chance to get cards in a product like this has NEVER came around and more than likely will never be done again. With just a small sample size of the cards that I have seen and read about I am sold that this is a high quality product.

Last I checked I currently do not have the money to bid and/or win a good majority of the cards being pulled. The Crosby and Ovechkin Young Guns Pristines, Ovechkin SPA auto Pristine, Jordan Fleer rookie, Clemente rookie, Manning SP Die-cut. I know that is an extremely small sample size and the number of so called duds are increasing with every break, but damn there is NO way I could even dream of getting one of those cards on my own. Now there is a product out there that would yield such cards? Hell the Crosby Cup, James Exquisite and all the Chrome 1/1's are still out there. I see this product building steam and just wish I had the chance to have a reason to complain to the masses.

I would be excited to get whatever I got because the thrill of the pull is huge in this product. How many cases of Ginter was opened early with no Strasburg's before we even knew of the damn card? At first the cases were good, but once the news broke of Strasburg minis and autos those first cases were garbage. I just don't get that. If you didn't want to rip Ginter in the first place, why did you? Such a strong and fun set was reduced to fodder because a late addition?

Anyway, I think that the RRR is a very strong product and will continue to be so. If I had the money, I would be putting it into that stuff right now. There is a chance at history in this product. No doubt. Will I EVER have the money or the chance at owning a Lebron Exquisite or a Crosby Cup? What about the Heyward or Stras Superfractors? Hell no, but with this product I have just a good a chance as the next guy.

A+ Razor, good job. Great product. I believe you have more than delieverd a steller product.

~AJ

rainmanesq said:

i think people forget that wax, esp. high end wax, is a GAMBLE.

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#1 Point. You've been thanked.

And to be RRR specific. It's amazing to me how people FAIL TO REALIZE that for every card that gets you 10x your investment there have to be so many that will get you 10% of your investment. That's just the way things work. If every card made money, then there would have been no way for a Business (Razor) to put so little into it that everything made the buyer a profit. Razor is a business in the game for making money.... they do that by taking minimal $5k hits and maximizing $100 hits and putting it into packs that are going to yield 1 real "winner" for every dozen losers.

Don't stick your hand into a shark tank without expecting to get bit once in a while.

Great points of view so far! Thank you all.

a few things.

1. with the way graded cards sell at market and the checklist the product has you have the potential for a monster flip or a monster loss per pack. those threads always pack them in and can validate your stance towards brian or the product in either direction and tend to be the way discussion leans.

2. with brian mentioning hand packing the cases and each case bringing an estimated return of $600-$800 you are going to see more posts from those that are in the hobby for the profit aspect instead of collecting.

3. this product wasnt really released for the team/set/player collector and chance at a nice pull. it was released for the chance at the ground shaking major pull. it makes no sense for me to be a collector of *** player and take the risk of pulling it from a $200+ box. when i can bid on it and win it without the risk of vesting myself up to my nads.