So...why no uproar?

danboone2006 · Jan 18, 2011

I've now busted 15 boxes of Bowman Draft. Out of those 15 boxes the centering on the autos have been pretty awful.

Now I know it's not as bad as some of the stuff we saw in Bowman Chrome (image almost or even sometimes actually cut), but it seems to me that the Autos I've pulled from Chrome were centered much better than the ones from draft. The lower #'ed cards in both sets seem to be centered much much better than the base or refractor autos.

I've seen some pretty awful centering on some eBay auctions so I know it's not ONLY me that's seeing this. Is this just bad luck on my part? Or is this a trend? And if it is a trend, why isn't there as much of an uproar about these as there was about Chrome?

saferseas · Jan 18, 2011

Hate to say it, but i think you had some bad luck. There were definitely more quality issues in topps chrome and bowman chrome this year than in draft. Also, i think you hear less complaints because draft is just miles better than chrome was this year, as far as production and auto checklist goes.

danboone2006 · Jan 18, 2011

That's sorta what I thought- It was just an overall flop with the Chrome product, everything piled up, and I think everyone was extra angry when Strasburg went down (not that Topps could control that) that cause the uproar.

The centering bothers me so much though. I work in the printing industry, and I just don't understand how these cards can be produced at plants that (I'm assuming) have equipment that blows everything out of the water that we have at the shop, and the centering be so far off, then make it into packs and into the market. This is 2011, not 1960, the centering should be 40/60 at absolute WORST.

RZimm11 · Jan 18, 2011

Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

People are making money on Draft just like they always do because Stras didn't tank it, so they are overlooking the same things.

It's always about money in prospect products. If you can't make money, then it's a horrible product. Even if they might have the same issues.

Topps sucked all year supposedly, but now it's not a problem because Draft is out and the same old thing keeps rolling and all is well. Nothing to see here.

reljac · Jan 18, 2011

I've not quite seen anything like this come out of Draft yet, but I could be wrong. The Fielder has must've been on the border of the sheet as it has a nice streak of silver down the side.

JoshHamilton · Jan 18, 2011

DWright5 said:
Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

People are making money on Draft just like they always do because Stras didn't tank it, so they are overlooking the same things.

It's always about money in prospect products. If you can't make money, then it's a horrible product. Even if they might have the same issues.

Topps sucked all year supposedly, but now it's not a problem because Draft is out and the same old thing keeps rolling and all is well. Nothing to see here.

This has been by far the worst year for Topps in terms of quality control. Everyone's complaints are completely valid.

RL24 · Jan 18, 2011

I think it's like this... if you offer a millionaire a pack of Ramen noodles, he will turn you down. Lock him up for a while and don't let him eat. A few days later, that Ramen will be looking really good, like a feast.

The Bowman Chrome and Topps Chrome products were so very crappy that people are just happy to get a half way decent product.

DWright5 said:
Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

:lol:

That's not what happened. They were complaining because the product was so crappy. The odds of hitting a color refractor were slim, which was a change from the 6 or 8 years before. The centering was terrible, many cards had a white powdery substance on the surface, or scratches, or bubbles, or a combination of all or some of those things.

These are things I read about on other boards, where there are very few prospectors, and many set collectors. They buy boxes to have the cards, to keep, or to trade the dupes. And they were full of complaints.

http://www.thebenchtrading.com/thebench ... p?t=341742

For years Topps had been putting out a nice Bowman Chrome product. People preordered craploads because of Strasburg, but they thought they knew what they were getting- a quality product. The quality went way way down, Strasburg got hurt, so everybody; collectors and prospectors alike, had much reason to complain. Had the prospectors who preordered all of that crap recieved a product that was just like previous years (fun hits in every box, quality cards) we wouldn't have heard much complaining. The only card in the entire set that would lose any value would be the Strasburg, and that's hard to complain too loudly about.

jubei777 · Jan 18, 2011

i agree with everyone in that topps chrome was by far the worst quality control of a product in some time. by saying that, the majority of the cards were severely off cut and the autos were all over the place. lots of surface scratches from packing and that "dust" that we all love so much. i'm just glad that they didn't extend that crap to bowman draft (at least all the cases that i saw at my LCS) and hopefully not to 2011 bowman as well.

rico08 · Jan 18, 2011

DWright5 said:
Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

People are making money on Draft just like they always do because Stras didn't tank it, so they are overlooking the same things.

It's always about money in prospect products. If you can't make money, then it's a horrible product. Even if they might have the same issues.

Topps sucked all year supposedly, but now it's not a problem because Draft is out and the same old thing keeps rolling and all is well. Nothing to see here.

Spoken with the perspective of a person who doesn't open product or have a clue about the grand scheme of the hobby. Nothing to see here.

aminors · Jan 18, 2011

I have received only one auto with gradeable centering from draft. One. Disappointing.

subpop77 · Jan 18, 2011

:shock: Damn!! Those are pretty bad

I guess we all got bit by the chrome :x

reljac said:
I've not quite seen anything like this come out of Draft yet, but I could be wrong. The Fielder has must've been on the border of the sheet as it has a nice streak of silver down the side.

uniquebaseballcards · Jan 18, 2011

DWright5 said:
Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

People are making money on Draft just like they always do because Stras didn't tank it, so they are overlooking the same things.

It's always about money in prospect products. If you can't make money, then it's a horrible product. Even if they might have the same issues.

Topps sucked all year supposedly, but now it's not a problem because Draft is out and the same old thing keeps rolling and all is well. Nothing to see here.

This is certainly plausible. I'd add that there have *always* been mis-cut cards, people used to collect them. If anything it makes the people who are into grading happy.

Just because the pack price has gone up doesn't mean cards can't be mis-cut.

miguelcabrera · Jan 18, 2011

do you want every card to be perfectly centered? then there is no premium on 9.5's etc not that there should be anyways

RL24 · Jan 18, 2011

miguelcabrera said:
do you want every card to be perfectly centered? then there is no premium on 9.5's etc not that there should be anyways

I guess that's one way to look at it. Do you also think that new cars should come with dented doors? That way if you find one that doesn't have dented doors, it will be worth more!

Sorry, it just makes no sense to me. I bought a pack of Twinkies, 5 of them were rotten in their package, but the ONE good one is worth 6 now!

There have always been miscut cards, they used to be collectable... because they were scarce! You could open a case and be "lucky" to find one miscut card. With these products, you open a pack and hope for 1 card that doesn't have any major defects. And not because you want to send it in and get it graded a 10 and sell it for a million. Surely I can't be the only one who doesn't like miscut cards in his collection...

011873 · Jan 18, 2011

Well I guess not everyone has seen the behind the scenes footage shot undercover by a disgruntled Topps employee.

Its been posted before but this will explain all the problems with the 2010 Topps line, especially Chrome stuff.

CAUTION: WOOP WOOOP.....STRONG LANGUAGE DONT LOOK AT WORK...WOOOP WOOOOP

[youtube:ll3itixy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ggp_AhrN8U&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/youtube:ll3itixy]

RZimm11 · Jan 19, 2011

rico08 said:
DWright5 said:

Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

People are making money on Draft just like they always do because Stras didn't tank it, so they are overlooking the same things.

It's always about money in prospect products. If you can't make money, then it's a horrible product. Even if they might have the same issues.

Topps sucked all year supposedly, but now it's not a problem because Draft is out and the same old thing keeps rolling and all is well. Nothing to see here.

Click to expand...

Spoken with the perspective of a person who doesn't open product or have a clue about the grand scheme of the hobby. Nothing to see here.

No, I don't open tons of product...anymore.

I learned long ago, after busting TONS of boxes a year, of all sports and companies, that you can't profit from opening boxes and boxes.

I started buying select boxes to make sets and buying singles to collect. It makes the hobby a whole lot more fun.

I opened 2 boxes of Topps Chrome to make a set. I traded doubles, some of which were mis-cut, and never had anyone cry to me that there was a problem with them.

Frankly, it gets tiring listening to people who bust case after case talk down to collectors who bust for fun like they are better or something.

No, I don't know about licensing or contracts or any inside info about companies and deals. I do know that there have been mis-cuts, and collation problems in sports cards forever, yet they keep going on.

I've been collecting since 86-87, and have seen all kinds of problems/innovation over the years. Some things work and some don't. I'm not defending Topps for the problems that they had, which are actually valid, it's just something that happens, and will happen again. And I'm sure that if baseball sees that the 1 company license is costing them money at some point, it will change.

The proof will be when EVERYBODY orders Topps and EVERYBODY buys Bowman again just like they always do in 2011. Whether the case-breakers load up again or not, the collectors will get their cards.

Krom · Jan 19, 2011

If everything was cut perfectly and well centered a 9.5 wouldn't sell for any more than ungraded.

glewis22 · Jan 19, 2011

DWright5 said:
Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

Um, no, maybe because the centering on most of the cards were god awful. Dude, go away, people with actual brains are trying to have a discussion.

uniquebaseballcards · Jan 19, 2011

glewis22 said:
DWright5 said:

Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

Click to expand...

Um, no, maybe because the centering on most of the cards were god awful. Dude, go away, people with actual brains are trying to have a discussion.

Please no thuggery!

The reason is at least partially true, Stras going down *did* have something to do with pricing taking a dive, as did ramped up production because of all the Stras-induced pre-ordering.

011873 · Jan 20, 2011

DWright5 said:
Simple answer. When Stras went down, people couldn't make money on the over-inflated price of Chrome. So they found everything they could to blame on why it sucked.

People are making money on Draft just like they always do because Stras didn't tank it, so they are overlooking the same things.

It's always about money in prospect products. If you can't make money, then it's a horrible product. Even if they might have the same issues.

Topps sucked all year supposedly, but now it's not a problem because Draft is out and the same old thing keeps rolling and all is well. Nothing to see here.

The simple answer is you're wrong. The expanded answer is:

1: Centering is beyond horrible.
2. The cards come straight from the pack bent like a gymnast doing a reverse arch.
3. The autos are smudged
4. The autos are missing
5. The ink from the autos show up on the backs of other cards
6. The cards are scratched
7. The "one per case" U.S.A. cards were not one per case
8. The production run was amped up like mad
9. A slew of autos were added last minute
10. Some white powder unkown to the Hobby was on the cards
11. The colors were HTF because the production was doubled-tripled
12. The EXCLUSIVE colors were EASY to find in retail.........RETAIL!

Topps has been making Chrome cards since 1996.
Topps has been making auto Chrome cards since 2001.
In other words, I would assume they know what they are doing, this isnt new to them, they arent a brand new company. Yet they fracked this up beyond belief with rookie mistakes by the **** load.

But yeah, its really the dealers who lost money on the product who messed it up ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

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