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Waterboarding is preferable to eBay customer service

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braden

New member
Aug 7, 2008
2,536
0
Humour me for a minute.

Today I received the dreaded, "You're below standard" email from the wonderful folks at eBay. Turns out in my past 365 days I have had four (4!) low ratings (1s and 2s) on Shipping Time. 4 out of 107 ratings. And you know what? I'm shocked it's that low. I'm in Canada and despite shipping within 48 hours at the most, I know it takes longer and I know that many buyers don't take the time/don't care to take that into account.

So in any event, the notice is extremely vague regarding potential selling limits etc so I called them up. After an acceptable wait time (10 mins) I got a guy who was clearly dumb. You know, just one of those guys who doesn't process things quickly. Nice guy and I wasn't the slightest bit rude. But he couldn't come anywhere close to answering my question of "what are the selling limits I may face". He had no clue. I politely asked to speak to a supervisor and was patched through. This woman had somewhat of an answer ("If you don't improve by the next evaluation period, you may not be allowed to list"). That led to this exchange:

Me: My problem is that I'm at a severe disadvantage by selling 99% of my items internationally. I will always be at risk for this.
Her: I understand your frustration.
Me: Is there any thought to having separate ratings for international transactions?
Her: All of our sellers are under the same rules.
Me: Exactly. That's the problem, isn't it?
Her: But sir, if you improve your shipping time, you'll be fine.
Me: Ma'am, I'm not blowing smoke. I can't improve. I honestly ship everything within 2 days, most often one day.
Her: Well then you'll probably be fine on the next evaluation
Me: [sigh]. In one year, four people have said I shipped slowly. Four. And that's not acceptable? Four people were likely annoyed that mail took a while and either didn't realize I was in another country or didn't care. How do I compete against that?
Her: I understand your frustration
Me: Is there a way to find out when the low ratings were left? So I can understand when they'll drop off?
Her: No, all of our ratings are anonymous.
Me: [finally noticeably irritable] You realize this is insane, right? I know you can't admit that and I know this has nothing to do with you but you must understand that this is mind-bendingly crazy, right?
Her: [silence]............I understand your frustration. Maybe if you sell more items your percentage will decrease with better ratings
Me: But the way for eBay to get me to improve is to perhaps stop me from selling, right?
Her: Yes, possibly.
Me: There isn't anybody who can help me in the slightest, is there?
Her: I can try to be of assistance for any problems you many have.
Me: Look, thank you for your time and letting me vent, but no, nobody can be of any help for this.


I feel for these people. It's a shatty job I'm sure, and of course it's not their fault. But, cripes, I'd rather take my chances with Jack Bauer than every trying that again.

I know I'm like the 500th person to bitch about this on here. But I just truly cannot comprehend what an insane system they have. Adam Carolla's right: When I was a kid, I never knew adults were so dumb.
 

JoshHamilton

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
12,205
320
Awful comparison

Waterboarding has never actually hurt anyone...it's only instilled fear in their minds

Ebay HAS hurt many

...sucks, sorry. That's why I haven't sold on Ebay in 4 years

As I always (have never said until I thought it up two seconds ago) say: Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice...screw you
 

pigskincardboard

New member
Nov 4, 2009
5,444
0
Toronto
braden said:
Humour me for a minute.

Today I received the dreaded, "You're below standard" email from the wonderful folks at eBay. Turns out in my past 365 days I have had four (4!) low ratings (1s and 2s) on Shipping Time. 4 out of 107 ratings. And you know what? I'm shocked it's that low. I'm in Canada and despite shipping within 48 hours at the most, I know it takes longer and I know that many buyers don't take the time/don't care to take that into account.

So in any event, the notice is extremely vague regarding potential selling limits etc so I called them up. After an acceptable wait time (10 mins) I got a guy who was clearly dumb. You know, just one of those guys who doesn't process things quickly. Nice guy and I wasn't the slightest bit rude. But he couldn't come anywhere close to answering my question of "what are the selling limits I may face". He had no clue. I politely asked to speak to a supervisor and was patched through. This woman had somewhat of an answer ("If you don't improve by the next evaluation period, you may not be allowed to list"). That led to this exchange:

Me: My problem is that I'm at a severe disadvantage by selling 99% of my items internationally. I will always be at risk for this.
Her: I understand your frustration.
Me: Is there any thought to having separate ratings for international transactions?
Her: All of our sellers are under the same rules.
Me: Exactly. That's the problem, isn't it?
Her: But sir, if you improve your shipping time, you'll be fine.
Me: Ma'am, I'm not blowing smoke. I can't improve. I honestly ship everything within 2 days, most often one day.
Her: Well then you'll probably be fine on the next evaluation
Me: [sigh]. In one year, four people have said I shipped slowly. Four. And that's not acceptable? Four people were likely annoyed that mail took a while and either didn't realize I was in another country or didn't care. How do I compete against that?
Her: I understand your frustration
Me: Is there a way to find out when the low ratings were left? So I can understand when they'll drop off?
Her: No, all of our ratings are anonymous.
Me: [finally noticeably irritable] You realize this is insane, right? I know you can't admit that and I know this has nothing to do with you but you must understand that this is mind-bendingly crazy, right?
Her: [silence]............I understand your frustration. Maybe if you sell more items your percentage will decrease with better ratings
Me: But the way for eBay to get me to improve is to perhaps stop me from selling, right?
Her: Yes, possibly.
Me: There isn't anybody who can help me in the slightest, is there?
Her: I can try to be of assistance for any problems you many have.
Me: Look, thank you for your time and letting me vent, but no, nobody can be of any help for this.


I feel for these people. It's a shatty job I'm sure, and of course it's not their fault. But, cripes, I'd rather take my chances with Jack Bauer than every trying that again.

I know I'm like the 500th person to bitch about this on here. But I just truly cannot comprehend what an insane system they have. Adam Carolla's right: When I was a kid, I never knew adults were so dumb.

I hate this with a passion but I can tell you what I did and it's a complete pain in the ass, here's what i've adopted and it works pretty well.

a) write a note and put it in with the cards: "Hey, thanks for the purchase! To make up for the added cost and time associated with shipping from Canada, I tried to include some cards I think you'd like. Thanks again."

b) put in cards that directly relate. Someoen buys an Ackley auto, toss in some ackley bowmans. It's basically like throwing in an extra buck in with every package.

Hah, if you're in Toronto and want a *** of cards to arbitrarily toss in packages. I'll hook you up with a couple 800ct boxes.

The key thing to remember is that 99.9% of people don't remember that they're getting it from Canada. Even if the postage makes it abundantly clear. The amount of emails I've gotten saying "Oh, I didn't realize this was coming from Canada" is ridiculous.

You're ceiling is basically 5.00, 5.00, 4.85, 4.85 with a 1 or 2 per hundred or two-hundred transactions or so. Some people are just a pain in the butt and I can tell you that the massive snowstorms killed the mail and everyone's got their ******* in a knot.
 

braden

New member
Aug 7, 2008
2,536
0
pigskincardboard said:
braden said:
Humour me for a minute.

Today I received the dreaded, "You're below standard" email from the wonderful folks at eBay. Turns out in my past 365 days I have had four (4!) low ratings (1s and 2s) on Shipping Time. 4 out of 107 ratings. And you know what? I'm shocked it's that low. I'm in Canada and despite shipping within 48 hours at the most, I know it takes longer and I know that many buyers don't take the time/don't care to take that into account.

So in any event, the notice is extremely vague regarding potential selling limits etc so I called them up. After an acceptable wait time (10 mins) I got a guy who was clearly dumb. You know, just one of those guys who doesn't process things quickly. Nice guy and I wasn't the slightest bit rude. But he couldn't come anywhere close to answering my question of "what are the selling limits I may face". He had no clue. I politely asked to speak to a supervisor and was patched through. This woman had somewhat of an answer ("If you don't improve by the next evaluation period, you may not be allowed to list"). That led to this exchange:

Me: My problem is that I'm at a severe disadvantage by selling 99% of my items internationally. I will always be at risk for this.
Her: I understand your frustration.
Me: Is there any thought to having separate ratings for international transactions?
Her: All of our sellers are under the same rules.
Me: Exactly. That's the problem, isn't it?
Her: But sir, if you improve your shipping time, you'll be fine.
Me: Ma'am, I'm not blowing smoke. I can't improve. I honestly ship everything within 2 days, most often one day.
Her: Well then you'll probably be fine on the next evaluation
Me: [sigh]. In one year, four people have said I shipped slowly. Four. And that's not acceptable? Four people were likely annoyed that mail took a while and either didn't realize I was in another country or didn't care. How do I compete against that?
Her: I understand your frustration
Me: Is there a way to find out when the low ratings were left? So I can understand when they'll drop off?
Her: No, all of our ratings are anonymous.
Me: [finally noticeably irritable] You realize this is insane, right? I know you can't admit that and I know this has nothing to do with you but you must understand that this is mind-bendingly crazy, right?
Her: [silence]............I understand your frustration. Maybe if you sell more items your percentage will decrease with better ratings
Me: But the way for eBay to get me to improve is to perhaps stop me from selling, right?
Her: Yes, possibly.
Me: There isn't anybody who can help me in the slightest, is there?
Her: I can try to be of assistance for any problems you many have.
Me: Look, thank you for your time and letting me vent, but no, nobody can be of any help for this.


I feel for these people. It's a shatty job I'm sure, and of course it's not their fault. But, cripes, I'd rather take my chances with Jack Bauer than every trying that again.

I know I'm like the 500th person to bitch about this on here. But I just truly cannot comprehend what an insane system they have. Adam Carolla's right: When I was a kid, I never knew adults were so dumb.

I hate this with a passion but I can tell you what I did and it's a complete pain in the ass, here's what i've adopted and it works pretty well.

a) write a note and put it in with the cards: "Hey, thanks for the purchase! To make up for the added cost and time associated with shipping from Canada, I tried to include some cards I think you'd like. Thanks again."

b) put in cards that directly relate. Someoen buys an Ackley auto, toss in some ackley bowmans. It's basically like throwing in an extra buck in with every package.

Hah, if you're in Toronto and want a *** of cards to arbitrarily toss in packages. I'll hook you up with a couple 800ct boxes.

The key thing to remember is that 99.9% of people don't remember that they're getting it from Canada. Even if the postage makes it abundantly clear. The amount of emails I've gotten saying "Oh, I didn't realize this was coming from Canada" is ridiculous.

You're ceiling is basically 5.00, 5.00, 4.85, 4.85 with a 1 or 2 per hundred or two-hundred transactions or so. Some people are just a pain in the butt and I can tell you that the massive snowstorms killed the mail and everyone's got their ******* in a knot.


Hey. Funny enough, I've been adding free cards in every package for a couple of years. Usually half a dozen inserts/premium base of the player/team they purchased. I will probably start adding the note, though; that's a good idea. I also email everyone thanking them for their purchase and stating when the item will be sent/was sent. I'll probably throw a line or two in about recognizing longer shipping times.

I hear you though with people not realizing they bought something from Canada. I've had the same experiences.

Every item I buy I look at one thing: the postmark. If it's within 1-4 business days of payment, they get five stars regardless of whether I got the package in an hour or a month. It just sucks that most people probably don't care enough to do the same.
 

pigskincardboard

New member
Nov 4, 2009
5,444
0
Toronto
braden said:
pigskincardboard said:
braden said:
Humour me for a minute.

Today I received the dreaded, "You're below standard" email from the wonderful folks at eBay. Turns out in my past 365 days I have had four (4!) low ratings (1s and 2s) on Shipping Time. 4 out of 107 ratings. And you know what? I'm shocked it's that low. I'm in Canada and despite shipping within 48 hours at the most, I know it takes longer and I know that many buyers don't take the time/don't care to take that into account.

So in any event, the notice is extremely vague regarding potential selling limits etc so I called them up. After an acceptable wait time (10 mins) I got a guy who was clearly dumb. You know, just one of those guys who doesn't process things quickly. Nice guy and I wasn't the slightest bit rude. But he couldn't come anywhere close to answering my question of "what are the selling limits I may face". He had no clue. I politely asked to speak to a supervisor and was patched through. This woman had somewhat of an answer ("If you don't improve by the next evaluation period, you may not be allowed to list"). That led to this exchange:

Me: My problem is that I'm at a severe disadvantage by selling 99% of my items internationally. I will always be at risk for this.
Her: I understand your frustration.
Me: Is there any thought to having separate ratings for international transactions?
Her: All of our sellers are under the same rules.
Me: Exactly. That's the problem, isn't it?
Her: But sir, if you improve your shipping time, you'll be fine.
Me: Ma'am, I'm not blowing smoke. I can't improve. I honestly ship everything within 2 days, most often one day.
Her: Well then you'll probably be fine on the next evaluation
Me: [sigh]. In one year, four people have said I shipped slowly. Four. And that's not acceptable? Four people were likely annoyed that mail took a while and either didn't realize I was in another country or didn't care. How do I compete against that?
Her: I understand your frustration
Me: Is there a way to find out when the low ratings were left? So I can understand when they'll drop off?
Her: No, all of our ratings are anonymous.
Me: [finally noticeably irritable] You realize this is insane, right? I know you can't admit that and I know this has nothing to do with you but you must understand that this is mind-bendingly crazy, right?
Her: [silence]............I understand your frustration. Maybe if you sell more items your percentage will decrease with better ratings
Me: But the way for eBay to get me to improve is to perhaps stop me from selling, right?
Her: Yes, possibly.
Me: There isn't anybody who can help me in the slightest, is there?
Her: I can try to be of assistance for any problems you many have.
Me: Look, thank you for your time and letting me vent, but no, nobody can be of any help for this.


I feel for these people. It's a shatty job I'm sure, and of course it's not their fault. But, cripes, I'd rather take my chances with Jack Bauer than every trying that again.

I know I'm like the 500th person to bitch about this on here. But I just truly cannot comprehend what an insane system they have. Adam Carolla's right: When I was a kid, I never knew adults were so dumb.

I hate this with a passion but I can tell you what I did and it's a complete pain in the ass, here's what i've adopted and it works pretty well.

a) write a note and put it in with the cards: "Hey, thanks for the purchase! To make up for the added cost and time associated with shipping from Canada, I tried to include some cards I think you'd like. Thanks again."

b) put in cards that directly relate. Someoen buys an Ackley auto, toss in some ackley bowmans. It's basically like throwing in an extra buck in with every package.

Hah, if you're in Toronto and want a *** of cards to arbitrarily toss in packages. I'll hook you up with a couple 800ct boxes.

The key thing to remember is that 99.9% of people don't remember that they're getting it from Canada. Even if the postage makes it abundantly clear. The amount of emails I've gotten saying "Oh, I didn't realize this was coming from Canada" is ridiculous.

You're ceiling is basically 5.00, 5.00, 4.85, 4.85 with a 1 or 2 per hundred or two-hundred transactions or so. Some people are just a pain in the butt and I can tell you that the massive snowstorms killed the mail and everyone's got their ******* in a knot.


Hey. Funny enough, I've been adding free cards in every package for a couple of years. Usually half a dozen inserts/premium base of the player/team they purchased. I will probably start adding the note, though; that's a good idea. I also email everyone thanking them for their purchase and stating when the item will be sent/was sent. I'll probably throw a line or two in about recognizing longer shipping times.

I hear you though with people not realizing they bought something from Canada. I've had the same experiences.

Every item I buy I look at one thing: the postmark. If it's within 1-4 business days of payment, they get five stars regardless of whether I got the package in an hour or a month. It just sucks that most people probably don't care enough to do the same.

Yah, I started writing noted w/ CANADA in big letters and including pertinent cards at the same time. I don't know what one does the trick, but people seem to be happy getting a Josh Freeman RC with their Josh Freeman Autograph. I had always included random cards, but decided to take the time to root around for something that was directly related to their purchase.

Today I got this gem and to put it in context, the guy ordered 3 lots of 3 cards each (9 total) and the lots he confused it with are lots of 97! and 50!!

"I have ordered a ton of these cards and accidently left you feedback but I haven't received these 9 cards. April is way too late for me to receive this please give me a refund and cancel my order. Thanks."

He left different feedback "accidentally" for each lot of three because he confused them with lots of 90-something. My delivery time is like a month later because eBay advised me to change my "handling time" to 15 days to account for *possible customs slow-downs.* Buyers apparently are more understanding when they know ahead of time that the package could take up to a month to receive.

This, of course, isn't the case.

But yah, the note inside the team bag works wonders. Just make sure that the word Canada stands out because they're probably not going to read it.
 

ljw29

New member
Feb 3, 2010
1,850
0
The system sucks, but there is a way to figure who left what, I have no clue but watched a seller with a spreadsheet that could pinpoint to the star who left what
 
sorry to read this yo! ebay puts policies into place without real time logic. then they train their minions that there is no flex... all of which is ********. it should be a case by case situation. the customer should not be able to leave a 1 or a 2 without a negative and if dsr is so important they need to calculate feedback based on that and at least require an explanation so you can better you chance of reaching a higher score........

you want to blow their mind? next time anyone gets one of these... or loses their status. take the percentage of overall cases you have had to open and use that in your conversation. i had 4.8% of my total sales (12month) go to case due to lack of payment. so the 3 1-2 dsrs i received over the 12 month period was smaller than the percentage of their buyers who failed to pay. then ask them why you are expected to live up to their standards when they fail to achieve a higher percentage of positive transactions. you can literally hear the customer service reps internal drive rebooting... and then crashing.
 

NECpilgrims8

New member
Aug 7, 2008
5,337
0
White Plains, NY
They never seem o reference the buyers who leave you no feedback at all, which essentially hurts you in the long run.

Some people are extremely lazy and don't care abou feedback as a buyer. If you had those people leaving the feedback and correct stars, there would be no issues.

Maybe eBay should penalize buyers for no leaving feedback.

What a crappy system.
 

IUjapander

New member
Jan 28, 2011
1,003
0
Indianapolis
I really don't understand why ebay is giving sellers such a hard time, when they let buyers like this continue to do what they do. This is an auction that I won last night. This guy did not really influence the price as someone else besides me put in a bid bigger than his, but if they had been the only other bidder I would have been pissed. This person has 142 bid retraction in six months, or .78 retractions PER DAY! And ebay is getting on you for less than 4% 1 and 2 DSR for shipping time across borders? Craziness.

stupidebay.jpg
 

JzWand

New member
Jun 8, 2009
1,328
0
Burlington Ontario Canada
Braden,

I got the same email as you the other day.
I also am in Canada (Toronto) and shipping times tend to take a longer amount of time.
My DSRs are 4.9, 4.8, 4.7, and 4.7.
I have 1 negative and 1 neutral out of almost 600 transactions and 10 years.

I dont really know what more a person can do so just try and take it with a grain of salt!
 

72skywalker

New member
Aug 4, 2010
77
0
Last I checked there is no gun pointed at your head forcing you to use the Ebay site. Sell somewhere elese. Simple. If Ebay changed their rules to a case by case basis, everyone would jump in and complain that they didn't fix my problem but they fixed another person's problem that was similar to theirs. That would then open up 1000's of new threads complaining about that. I think you need to sit back, relax and enjoy your trip to Mamby Pamby land.
 

NECpilgrims8

New member
Aug 7, 2008
5,337
0
White Plains, NY
72skywalker said:
Last I checked there is no gun pointed at your head forcing you to use the Ebay site. Sell somewhere elese. Simple. If Ebay changed their rules to a case by case basis, everyone would jump in and complain that they didn't fix my problem but they fixed another person's problem that was similar to theirs. That would then open up 1000's of new threads complaining about that. I think you need to sit back, relax and enjoy your trip to Mamby Pamby land.

Unfortunately, there is no other selling site like eBay that reaches that many costumers, world-wide.

If you have one, especially for sports cards, please let me know. Otherwise, your eyes wide shut approach is just ridiculous.

eBay should be on he side of the SELLER, not the buyer in terms of the site. They make 100% of their money from sellers, no people buying products.

I got he same status on my account and they told me that if it doesn't improve, I will only be able to buy on ebay until I fix it. Yet, they make a killing off me listing items.

A bit ass backwards to me.
 
72skywalker said:
Last I checked there is no gun pointed at your head forcing you to use the Ebay site. Sell somewhere elese. Simple. If Ebay changed their rules to a case by case basis, everyone would jump in and complain that they didn't fix my problem but they fixed another person's problem that was similar to theirs. That would then open up 1000's of new threads complaining about that. I think you need to sit back, relax and enjoy your trip to Mamby Pamby land.

are you the rock?
 

tonsofcommons

Active member
Aug 20, 2008
6,102
13
Iowa
72skywalker said:
Last I checked there is no gun pointed at your head forcing you to use the Ebay site. Sell somewhere elese. Simple. If Ebay changed their rules to a case by case basis, everyone would jump in and complain that they didn't fix my problem but they fixed another person's problem that was similar to theirs. That would then open up 1000's of new threads complaining about that. I think you need to sit back, relax and enjoy your trip to Mamby Pamby land.

I hate this explaination. I understand that everyone has an option, but that doesn't fix the situation.

I personally have not had any problems selling on ebay. I ship quickly and have 5.0 and 4.9s, but that doesn't make me unaware of the situation.

Ebay is the top dog for online retail for everyday schmucks like us. When I go to buy something online, the first place I look is Ebay. And where else can you get millions of potential buyers to look at an item you are selling?

Am I tired of hearing ebay horror stories? kinda. Would I be pissed also? Yes

The Ebay feedback system is a joke. We all know it. But we just need to decide if we want to fix it or not.

Just my two cents.
 

JoshHamilton

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
12,205
320
notjomommasclint said:
72skywalker said:
Last I checked there is no gun pointed at your head forcing you to use the Ebay site. Sell somewhere elese. Simple. If Ebay changed their rules to a case by case basis, everyone would jump in and complain that they didn't fix my problem but they fixed another person's problem that was similar to theirs. That would then open up 1000's of new threads complaining about that. I think you need to sit back, relax and enjoy your trip to Mamby Pamby land.

are you the rock?

That's R. Lee Ermey
 

reljac

New member
Apr 12, 2010
634
0
Pearland, Tx
If you are concerned, then file with the better business bureau in San Jose (BBB). It's the best way to get past the CS monkeys. Ebay does seem to concern themselves with their BBB rating, so they will respond to your complaint.

It seems to me that Ebay underestimated, how in a rating system people tend to rate the extremes. Either 5 if they were satisfied or 0 if they were unhappy. There is little middle ground. The problem with this is that due to hidden DSRs there is no mechanism in place for sellers to appeal DSRs, even if everything they did was compliant. I could sell an item in the morning, get it in the mail by noon, and still receive a 'slow shipping' DSR of 0 or 1, unless I used the 1 day handling time & purchase the shipping online and it happen to not get delayed in route required to bypass the DSR in that category.

Here's some example of people discussing the fact that ebay does reply to BBB complaints

Here is a link to the BBB in San Jose where you would report Ebay

REMEMBER, YOU are a customer of ebay and they are interested in maintaining their BBB rating.
 

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