Won a nice Ruth Cut - Need some advice..

I just purchased this gorgeous Ruth cut for a project that I am working on and am curious as to what the experts here think about the auto. It has obviously been certified by PSA and I intend to submit for JSAs opinion as well, but after reading about all of the forgeries out there and seeing at how pristine this auto is, I wanted some opinions..Thanks in advance.

I think you give the board members here too much credit...

PSA probably has better judgment than 99.9% of the people here.

It looks good to me, then again, i'm not a professional grader.

JSA may be a good idea, then again, how can he truly be unbiased if he has any bad blood against Psa.

Good luck, it's a beaut!

I agree with brouthercard 100%

I have to ask, why bother crossing it over to JSA? If you dont trust PSA, why buy a PSA certified cut? If JSA were to say not real, who you gonna believe, JSA or PSA? What you gonna do, ask PSA for a refund? They wont, they will tell you that they believe it to be real. Why not just wait for a JSA certified one to come up if that is who you truly trust? Have to remember, both are just giving opinions based on known authentic examples from their databases.

Musial Collector said:

I agree with brouthercard 100%

I have to ask, why bother crossing it over to JSA? If you dont trust PSA, why buy a PSA certified cut? If JSA were to say not real, who you gonna believe, JSA or PSA? What you gonna do, ask PSA for a refund? They wont, they will tell you that they believe it to be real. Why not just wait for a JSA certified one to come up if that is who you truly trust? Have to remember, both are just giving opinions based on known authentic examples from their databases.

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I appreciate the response. I don't really have a preference between JSA or PSA, but I would definitely be more satisfied with my purchase if JSA confirmed PSA's opinion. I bought this particular cut because I need a Ruth cut for a project I am working on and this is by far the most asthetically pleasing Ruth cut I have seen in the 4-5 months I have been looking for one.

Before you choose JSA, you might want to read this....

It was taken from http://www.autographalert.com/news.html

Breaking News:
March 21, 2011



James Spence
Another Nail In His Coffin,
Authenticates Signature of Man 2 Years Dead



On February 7, 2011 in an article on this site, we asked James Spence of JSA and John Reznikoff of JSA and PSA/DNA and Bob Eaton of RR Auction and PSA/DNA what research they do when they authenticated as genuine a secretarial signature of Dwight Eisenhower.

The readers of www.autographalert.com are still waiting for just one of these fellows to respond. These folks need to step up to the plate and be accountable for their inexcusable authentications!

Once again, this hobby cries out for regulation. As said before, a barber needs a license to give a $10 haircut but some whipper snapper can come into this hobby and sell millions of dollars of forged John F. Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe items and they just get their hands slapped.

Their autograph education is their shadow and some have no shadow at all. What makes James Spence an autograph authenticator? Has he taken just one of the 14 autograph educational courses that were available around the United States? The answer is NO! Has he even taken the free autograph educational course available on this site? The answer is the same, NO. So what are his credentials? We would love to hear from him.

There are some quarter wit forgers who still infiltrate our hobby, however the list of half wit collectors and autograph sellers who are ignorant enough to pay a high profile 3rd party company who can only claim they can authenticate autographs gets much smaller. Example, Spence recently appeared in a sports autograph store in South Florida. Reports tell us that only 6 people showed up.

The only reason we can attribute this poor showing is collectors are becoming slowly educated. It seems every day another professional autograph dealer will not issue a refund based on a guess, backed by nothing, from a third party authenticating company. These companies when approached by an irate autograph collector will be told “you paid for our opinion”. As we all know, everyone has an opinion and many educated dealers will give you theirs “free of charge”.

Some of these authenticators are so hungry for business they are now offering packages of a minimum of 400 items. They will authenticate them for $8 each. What you get is an uneducated guess and one very ugly sticker that serves as nothing more than an advertisement. In some cases and in such a short period of time, these stickers are already doing damage to the item.

One long time professional dealer recently stated that what these wannabe authenticators should do is take several of these silly stickers and completely cover the autograph they just authenticated. Their COA can state the autograph under the stickers got the best guess from ABC or DEF or GHI Authentication company. This way no one can later see or question the autograph.

Has anyone seen the latest item for sale in American Memorabilia’s Auction? This outfit who has a long history of selling items mis-authenticated by 3rd party authenticators has what they describe as a “1948 Leaf - Jack Johnson Signed card #17”. Opening bid $200.00.

A genuine signature of Jack Johnson is quite uncommon. According to several genuine autograph experts, the signature on this card is a very poor quality forgery and no respected authenticator would ever attach their name to it. Yet, this poor quality forgery passes muster by James Spence. This item has been authenticated as genuine by James Spence at JSA Authentication.

Once again, how could this happen? How in the world was any research done on this signature by James Spence to pass this horrible forgery as genuine? Again, we ask James Spence to come forward and tell us what he did to determine this signature of Jack Johnson is genuine? What did he do time wise for the money he was paid to authenticate this item? Where in the world did he find even one exemplar to make such a horrible guess? What credentials does James Spence have to be an autograph authenticator?


Recto


Verso
1948 Leaf Card of Jack Johnson Authenticated by James Spence

No matter what James Spence has to say to even attempt to justify his latest blunder, may we also state that Jack Johnson died on June 10, 1946, two years before this card was produced!
The following is an email we received recently. It is like so many others we have received.
3/15/2011 1:44:23 Eastern Daylight Time
“I also want to mention to support your story on JSA. I was given a ball hand signed by Albert Pujols, he actually put the ball in my hand. JSA (James Spence) was having an event in Feb with Steiner Sports. I decided to take the ball over to them JUST to see what they would say. Of course, they asked “where I got the ball” prior to actually looking at it. I responded, “what difference does it make where I got it“? They failed the ball, at which point I then told them where I got the ball. And of course they did not believe me and said it was a fake. Worst of all they still charged me the 430. What the experience did was reinforce the fact that 3rd party authenticator means Jack S…”! Thanks much, John W.”


Dale

cat

Wowza, read the 2/14/11 article.
I cannot vouch either way for JSA, but that is some pretty damning evidence IMO as to JSA just either not knowing or not giving a shat and only in it to make some $$$

that sure is an amazing looking Ruth cut

i just want to know what kind of project requires this ruth cut

Musial Collector said:

Wowza, read the 2/14/11 article.
I cannot vouch either way for JSA, but that is some pretty damning evidence IMO as to JSA just either not knowing or not giving a shat and only in it to make some $$$

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The only thing in that article missing is how many items did they send in to get those results. Was it 100% of the items with Chris's COA or 2%. Either way that article was a good read.

Give me a break. That autograph alert guy seems like a psycho with a grudge against psa & jsa. I'd take everything said there with a grain of salt.

100% authentic!
I may have owned that one before now that I look at it.. Bg

Jastermereel said:

Give me a break. That autograph alert guy seems like a psycho with a grudge against psa & jsa. I'd take everything said there with a grain of salt.

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+1
Seems like he hes an axe to grind.

boomo said:

i just want to know what kind of project requires this ruth cut

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If I were an artist, I would call it my masterpiece :lol:

I would leave it in PSA/DNA case. Are you gonna crack it out???

matchpenalty said:

I would leave it in PSA/DNA case. Are you gonna crack it out???

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Yes, my project requires that it is cracked.

Jays_Cards said:

I just purchased this gorgeous Ruth cut for a project that I am working on and am curious as to what the experts here think about the auto. It has obviously been certified by PSA and I intend to submit for JSAs opinion as well, but after reading about all of the forgeries out there and seeing at how pristine this auto is, I wanted some opinions..Thanks in advance.

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Cut is gorgeous. I bid 2800 on this cut auto....I ended up buying a beauty slabbed by SGC-James Spence for 2650.

Paging 200lbhockeyplayer....