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An MLB Representative took FDNY and NYPD hats from the Mets

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Watt

New member
Aug 16, 2008
549
0
Cleveland
http://deadspin.com/5839331/mlb-physica ... last-night

MLB's hopes for again being the go-to sports healing for September 11th were boned the second they realized the anniversary fell on an NFL Sunday. But they would have been hard-pressed to screw it up more than they did. The Yankees were on the road, the Nationals had a short little ceremony, and the Mets? Well, thanks to the Mets, MLB is getting exactly the wrong kind of press over their 9/11 remembrance—literally grabbing first responder hats out of the dugout to prevent the Mets from wearing them.

And yes, before we go any further, the "official" American flag hats the Mets were forced to wear last night are available for $36.99 at the MLB.com store.
The Mets' pregame ceremony was incredibly moving, and showed football that you don't have to go cheesily jingoistic to make your point. But the Mets players had one more gesture they wanted to make: they wanted to wear the caps of the NYPD, FDNY, PAPD and other first responders who lost people on September 11. It would have been a callback to the first game of baseball's return in 2001, when the Mets pulled out an emotional victory, and did so while representing the heroes and the dead.

It was not to be, even with Mike Piazza and John Franco in the ballpark last night. Last week MLB made their preemptive strike, sending a memo to all teams telling them they could only wear official hats on the field. As late as yesterday's batting practice, the Mets were thinking mutiny.

"What are they going to do, fine us?" asked catcher Josh Thole, the team's union rep. As it turns out, yes.

"They contacted the club and said it's an absolute 'no chance' at all," Thole said. "I guess the fines would be (prohibitive). I spoke with some of the guys and with Terry (Collins) and he said the same thing. They came down on the club very hard and there's nothing we can do.

The memo came from Joe Torre, MLB's VP of baseball operations. No hats, so as "to be consistent around the league." The same Joe Torre, who proudly donned NYPD and PAPD hats 10 years ago.

He could have taken a lesson from his erstwhile crosstown counterpart Bobby Valentine, who last night shared the story of how MLB tried to stop the Mets from wearing first responder caps in 2001.

"That's what they told us, we couldn't wear the hats," Valentine said. "We were getting ready to wear them in Pittsburgh for our first game back, when (GM) Steve (Phillips) came in and said, 'You can't wear them.'

"I said, 'Oh, OK, and I called a meeting and said, 'Hey, guys, you can't wear the hats.' Then Steve went upstairs, and as the guys came down the runway to the dugout, I stood there, handing out the caps we weren't supposed to wear."

"It was Todd Zeile who said they would have had to tear them off of us," Valentine said. "That's just the way the guys felt. They were a great group of guys who wanted to do the right thing."

Today's Mets did too, but the threat of huge fines was too much. Some players donned the first responder caps in the dugout, but after TV cameras captured David Wright wearing one, MLB sent a representative down to collect and remove them all from the dugout.

We're not dumb enough to think that MLB's edict means the nation is going to heal any slower, or that it's un-American or disrespectful. But just letting them wear the damn caps wouldn't have hurt anyone, and by letting this blow up into a mini-scandal, baseball once again proves how tone-deaf it can be to public perception when their profit margins are at stake.


If even the strict NFL relaxes the rules, this is just sad.
 

RL24

New member
Dec 12, 2008
3,469
4
Colorado Springs, CO
The MLB has strict rules about their hats. You don't mess with the hats. You can wear "Los Mets" jerseys, or Camo Padres jerseys, but you can't mess with the hats. Unless the whole league does it, like on the 4th of July or the fantastic Turn Ahead the Clock event (some teams turned down the opportunity to partake in that awesome event).


The main problem is they didn't give the MLB enough time to work it out. The Nat's did the same thing recently trying to wear military insignias on their hats. I think if these teams gave the MLB the idea a few months in advance something could be worked out. If not, you can wear speacial patches on your jerseys, special jerseys, special wrist bands, etc etc etc. You just can't mess with the hats. Why do these teams try to mess with the hats, and announce it a couple days before they plan to wear them?


I don't understand why teams keep making MLB look like the bad guy. It's like when your kid is 2 and sooooo cute and it's time for breakfast, and he/she goes "popsicoes?" and points to the freezer. You want to be the good guy, but it's just against the rules. So you have to say no. And then they throw a fit. "Popsicles are good!" they think. "You are bad!" they think. But really, you're not a bad guy for upholding your rules. It actually makes you a good guy, and it's best if you're consistant about it. Because if you give 1 popsicle 1 morning 1 time, they will want popsicles for breakfast every day.


So, I know it seems mean that MLB won't let the Mets mess with their hats for 9-11, or let the Nats mess with their hats in honor of veterans, but it's not mean at all to uphold their rules. Even if it means that we, the fans and players, get no popsicles for breakfast.
 

alexs64

Active member
Jul 28, 2010
12,329
6
Moreno Valley, Ca
I used to have respect for Joe Torre, I don't care if he officially gave the directive or was just the messenger....It should have NEVER had his name on it, NEVER. Joe Torre now ranks among the Mannys and Bonds' for me.
 
The Mets contacted MLB at the start of the season and were told no from the start. It was NOT a matter of not enough time.
I was so disgusted I wrote a quick note to the NY Daily News...

"So MLB told the Mets that they could not wear First Responders hats on the 10th Anniversary of 9/11? And the team listened? I can't express my disappointment with the Mets brass, manager, and Josh Thole (Union Representative). As a First Responder and lifelong Mets fan, the 2001 team brought us a lift, a spirit, hope when first responders needed it the most. To see "my team" wear "my hat" brought tears to my eyes. I was hoping for that same lift (on a very tough day) from the 2011 team. Instead they feared the fines.

Sometimes you have to do the "right thing", like putting yourself in harms way for others..."
 

ffgameman

New member
Aug 7, 2008
6,698
0
Kentucky
Sometimes rules and regulations are meant to be broken.

There are more important things to be concerned with than what variations of a uniform a player might wear. It's just a hat - come on MLB.
 
ffgameman said:
Sometimes rules and regulations are meant to be broken.

There are more important things to be concerned with than what variations of a uniform a player might wear. It's just a hat - come on MLB.


If MLB is so concerned about uniforms why dont they start making the players keep their pockets in their pants??
Why do players keep their pockets out dangling? Reyes does it and it drives me crazy...
 

Keyser Soze

New member
Nov 9, 2010
3,262
0
The Woodlands, TX
RL24 said:
The MLB has strict rules about their hats. You don't mess with the hats. You can wear "Los Mets" jerseys, or Camo Padres jerseys, but you can't mess with the hats. Unless the whole league does it, like on the 4th of July or the fantastic Turn Ahead the Clock event (some teams turned down the opportunity to partake in that awesome event).


The main problem is they didn't give the MLB enough time to work it out. The Nat's did the same thing recently trying to wear military insignias on their hats. I think if these teams gave the MLB the idea a few months in advance something could be worked out. If not, you can wear speacial patches on your jerseys, special jerseys, special wrist bands, etc etc etc. You just can't mess with the hats. Why do these teams try to mess with the hats, and announce it a couple days before they plan to wear them?


I don't understand why teams keep making MLB look like the bad guy. It's like when your kid is 2 and sooooo cute and it's time for breakfast, and he/she goes "popsicoes?" and points to the freezer. You want to be the good guy, but it's just against the rules. So you have to say no. And then they throw a fit. "Popsicles are good!" they think. "You are bad!" they think. But really, you're not a bad guy for upholding your rules. It actually makes you a good guy, and it's best if you're consistant about it. Because if you give 1 popsicle 1 morning 1 time, they will want popsicles for breakfast every day.


So, I know it seems mean that MLB won't let the Mets mess with their hats for 9-11, or let the Nats mess with their hats in honor of veterans, but it's not mean at all to uphold their rules. Even if it means that we, the fans and players, get no popsicles for breakfast.


I am glad not everyone is like you, otherwise we'd still be under British rule, cussing King George the 19th
 

pujols5hof

New member
Aug 9, 2011
430
0
Keyser Soze said:
RL24 said:
The MLB has strict rules about their hats. You don't mess with the hats. You can wear "Los Mets" jerseys, or Camo Padres jerseys, but you can't mess with the hats. Unless the whole league does it, like on the 4th of July or the fantastic Turn Ahead the Clock event (some teams turned down the opportunity to partake in that awesome event).


The main problem is they didn't give the MLB enough time to work it out. The Nat's did the same thing recently trying to wear military insignias on their hats. I think if these teams gave the MLB the idea a few months in advance something could be worked out. If not, you can wear speacial patches on your jerseys, special jerseys, special wrist bands, etc etc etc. You just can't mess with the hats. Why do these teams try to mess with the hats, and announce it a couple days before they plan to wear them?


I don't understand why teams keep making MLB look like the bad guy. It's like when your kid is 2 and sooooo cute and it's time for breakfast, and he/she goes "popsicoes?" and points to the freezer. You want to be the good guy, but it's just against the rules. So you have to say no. And then they throw a fit. "Popsicles are good!" they think. "You are bad!" they think. But really, you're not a bad guy for upholding your rules. It actually makes you a good guy, and it's best if you're consistant about it. Because if you give 1 popsicle 1 morning 1 time, they will want popsicles for breakfast every day.


So, I know it seems mean that MLB won't let the Mets mess with their hats for 9-11, or let the Nats mess with their hats in honor of veterans, but it's not mean at all to uphold their rules. Even if it means that we, the fans and players, get no popsicles for breakfast.


I am glad not everyone is like you, otherwise we'd still be under British rule, cussing King George the 19th

i happen to agree with ryan and i am the epitome of rebellion.
what would they (mets) have preferred, a bigger issue than it already was? i aint sayin mlb was right, im saying they were consistent. let it go once and before you know it we'll be having throwback throw the spit/razor/sandpaperball day every year.
and it was posted "joe torre alongside bonds and manny". cool, he was alongside a bunch of steroid poppers in 2001 when a steroid popper (luis gonzalez) beat him in the world series. he just always opens his mouth at the wrong time doesnt he? gimme a break.

as for ole king george, he just had some crazy tax policy issues. ask obama how thats gonna work out for him :evil:
 

Keyser Soze

New member
Nov 9, 2010
3,262
0
The Woodlands, TX
pujols5hof said:
Keyser Soze said:
RL24 said:
The MLB has strict rules about their hats. You don't mess with the hats. You can wear "Los Mets" jerseys, or Camo Padres jerseys, but you can't mess with the hats. Unless the whole league does it, like on the 4th of July or the fantastic Turn Ahead the Clock event (some teams turned down the opportunity to partake in that awesome event).


The main problem is they didn't give the MLB enough time to work it out. The Nat's did the same thing recently trying to wear military insignias on their hats. I think if these teams gave the MLB the idea a few months in advance something could be worked out. If not, you can wear speacial patches on your jerseys, special jerseys, special wrist bands, etc etc etc. You just can't mess with the hats. Why do these teams try to mess with the hats, and announce it a couple days before they plan to wear them?


I don't understand why teams keep making MLB look like the bad guy. It's like when your kid is 2 and sooooo cute and it's time for breakfast, and he/she goes "popsicoes?" and points to the freezer. You want to be the good guy, but it's just against the rules. So you have to say no. And then they throw a fit. "Popsicles are good!" they think. "You are bad!" they think. But really, you're not a bad guy for upholding your rules. It actually makes you a good guy, and it's best if you're consistant about it. Because if you give 1 popsicle 1 morning 1 time, they will want popsicles for breakfast every day.


So, I know it seems mean that MLB won't let the Mets mess with their hats for 9-11, or let the Nats mess with their hats in honor of veterans, but it's not mean at all to uphold their rules. Even if it means that we, the fans and players, get no popsicles for breakfast.


I am glad not everyone is like you, otherwise we'd still be under British rule, cussing King George the 19th

i happen to agree with ryan and i am the epitome of rebellion.
what would they (mets) have preferred, a bigger issue than it already was? i aint sayin mlb was right, im saying they were consistent. let it go once and before you know it we'll be having throwback throw the spit/razor/sandpaperball day every year.
and it was posted "joe torre alongside bonds and manny". cool, he was alongside a bunch of steroid poppers in 2001 when a steroid popper (luis gonzalez) beat him in the world series. he just always opens his mouth at the wrong time doesnt he? gimme a break.

as for ole king george, he just had some crazy tax policy issues. ask obama how thats gonna work out for him :evil:


I don't know where this misconception comes from that just because you let a rule slide once that complete and utter anarchy are going to ensue. It's ridiculous to think that no one can ever allow a rule to be bent without everyone taking complete advantage of it.
 

zach

New member
Aug 7, 2008
4,117
1
Evil Empire
RL24 said:
The MLB has strict rules about their hats. You don't mess with the hats. You can wear "Los Mets" jerseys, or Camo Padres jerseys, but you can't mess with the hats. Unless the whole league does it, like on the 4th of July or the fantastic Turn Ahead the Clock event (some teams turned down the opportunity to partake in that awesome event).


The main problem is they didn't give the MLB enough time to work it out. The Nat's did the same thing recently trying to wear military insignias on their hats. I think if these teams gave the MLB the idea a few months in advance something could be worked out. If not, you can wear speacial patches on your jerseys, special jerseys, special wrist bands, etc etc etc. You just can't mess with the hats. Why do these teams try to mess with the hats, and announce it a couple days before they plan to wear them?


I don't understand why teams keep making MLB look like the bad guy. It's like when your kid is 2 and sooooo cute and it's time for breakfast, and he/she goes "popsicoes?" and points to the freezer. You want to be the good guy, but it's just against the rules. So you have to say no. And then they throw a fit. "Popsicles are good!" they think. "You are bad!" they think. But really, you're not a bad guy for upholding your rules. It actually makes you a good guy, and it's best if you're consistant about it. Because if you give 1 popsicle 1 morning 1 time, they will want popsicles for breakfast every day.


So, I know it seems mean that MLB won't let the Mets mess with their hats for 9-11, or let the Nats mess with their hats in honor of veterans, but it's not mean at all to uphold their rules. Even if it means that we, the fans and players, get no popsicles for breakfast.

I have to disagree here.

A few months notice is not required here (even though a few months notice was given). This is not a major decision. This would not change the way the game is played. This was a simple request made and a quick decision can be made for something like this. MLB (IMO) missed a major public relations opportunity. In 2001 the world and NYC turned to baseball as a means of distraction from what we were going through. Now, ten years later, when the entire country was recognizing the day, a New York team wanted to show it's support for it's city and for the people of the city.... MLB says NO?

This is not about a team or teams making MLB look bad. They have accomplished that all on their own. MLB separated themselves further from the world with this poor decision.

"Football, Hot Dogs and Apple Pie"......that's starting to sound more American.
 

Randy Shields

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2008
2,224
441
OH-IO
When Serena Williams heard about this move on MLB's part she stated: "You're out of control. You're a hater, and you're just unattractive inside. Really, don't even look at me."

Seriously, MLB screwed up here. They planned this game on this day waaay back before the season even began. Having seen it happen 10 years ago they absolutely knew that there was a good chance the Mets players were going to wear the hats.

Did it do any damage 10 years ago? Would it have done any damage last night?

MLB = FAIL

Enough said.
 

TomMurry

New member
Jan 30, 2010
6,776
0
Eastern PA
RL24 said:
It's like when your kid is 2 and sooooo cute and it's time for breakfast, and he/she goes "popsicoes?" and points to the freezer.

I LOL'd because I've heard the precious request for "popsicoes" and at times, its laid on thick by saying "popsicoes peeeease?"
 

morgoth

New member
Jul 2, 2010
2,167
0
There is always one person who will agree with the rules no matter how stupid and ridiculous they are.

It is not a slippery slope people, it was done 10 years ago and nuclear war did not happen as a result.

As far as popcicles go for kids, you would have to be an awful parent if you let one rule slide and your kids become Timothy McVey as a result.
 

pujols5hof

New member
Aug 9, 2011
430
0
morgoth said:
There is always one person who will agree with the rules no matter how stupid and ridiculous they are.

It is not a slippery slope people, it was done 10 years ago and nuclear war did not happen as a result.

As far as popcicles go for kids, you would have to be an awful parent if you let one rule slide and your kids become Timothy McVey as a result.

i'm quite sure one person didnt agree to the rules, every member of mlbpa agreed to those uniform rules.

self-explanatory

tim started somewhere didn't he?
 

RL24

New member
Dec 12, 2008
3,469
4
Colorado Springs, CO
Here's the stupid part to me though...


Why did it have to be the hats?



They could have all worn "NYPD" jerseys to the game. They just had to wear a Mets hat.



It's not that hard. It's not the end of the world. It's very simple. It's rules.


I shouldn't have to explain precedents to you guys. Come on.


You can't let O.J. Simpson get away with murder just because he's OJ. That sets a bad precedent. OK, bad example.


You can't let Mark McGuire & Sammy Sosa get away with doing steroids just because it revives the game of baseball. That sets a bad precedent. OK, another bad example.



Seriously though. I understand where you guys are coming from, the bleeding hearts and the artists, wanting to make your stand. I feel you brothers. But the MLB is The Man, and The Man has rules, and you can fight The Man but The Man will win. Sorry fellas. Gotta follow The Man's rules.
 

Randy Shields

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2008
2,224
441
OH-IO
RL24 said:
Here's the stupid part to me though...


Why did it have to be the hats?



They could have all worn "NYPD" jerseys to the game. They just had to wear a Mets hat.



It's not that hard. It's not the end of the world. It's very simple. It's rules.


I shouldn't have to explain precedents to you guys. Come on.


You can't let O.J. Simpson get away with murder just because he's OJ. That sets a bad precedent. OK, bad example.


You can't let Mark McGuire & Sammy Sosa get away with doing steroids just because it revives the game of baseball. That sets a bad precedent. OK, another bad example.



Seriously though. I understand where you guys are coming from, the bleeding hearts and the artists, wanting to make your stand. I feel you brothers. But the MLB is The Man, and The Man has rules, and you can fight The Man but The Man will win. Sorry fellas. Gotta follow The Man's rules.


No, no the Man would have lost this fight if they didn't get wind of it and physically take -(steal?) all of the hats from the Mets dugout.

The Man was assinine to do this as the Anniversary of the worst terrorist attack on American soil should without question supercede a callous and ignorant move by the Man.

As I stated earlier, who was hurt by the wearing of "hats" 10 years earlier? And who would have been hurt by the wearing of them on Sunday night? This was ridiculous of the Man to go this far to see that those hats were not worn. An exception could have and should have been made for this 1 game, 1 time.

And for the record, most players if not all players exchanged they're store bought hats they wore 10 years ago for those of the people who had actually been wearing them in they're line of service during this tragic event.

So for me this was Not a Man. This was more like power over principle. The Man simply Failed. That's it.
 

hoopster3977

New member
Jun 22, 2010
5,407
0
Upper Peninsula
alexs64 said:
I used to have respect for Joe Torre, I don't care if he officially gave the directive or was just the messenger....It should have NEVER had his name on it, NEVER. Joe Torre now ranks among the Mannys and Bonds' for me.
I think the blame should be put on the "Tool" of a commissioner, known as used-car salesman, Bud Selig.
 

JzWand

New member
Jun 8, 2009
1,328
0
Burlington Ontario Canada
AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR said:
The Mets contacted MLB at the start of the season and were told no from the start. It was NOT a matter of not enough time.
I was so disgusted I wrote a quick note to the NY Daily News...

"So MLB told the Mets that they could not wear First Responders hats on the 10th Anniversary of 9/11? And the team listened? I can't express my disappointment with the Mets brass, manager, and Josh Thole (Union Representative). As a First Responder and lifelong Mets fan, the 2001 team brought us a lift, a spirit, hope when first responders needed it the most. To see "my team" wear "my hat" brought tears to my eyes. I was hoping for that same lift (on a very tough day) from the 2011 team. Instead they feared the fines.

Sometimes you have to do the "right thing", like putting yourself in harms way for others..."

I get what you are saying and I respect your contributions and your involvement in 9/11 but were you going to pay all the fines the players and the team would have likely incurred?

I mean its pretty simple to read what happened here.

MLB said no to the Mets a while ago.
The Mets tried to strong arm them using the emotional attachment Sunday had and meant and MLB basically said "dont do it or else"!

Its always a little easier to criticize others actions when you were not the one who would have suffered the ramifications of the choice.

If the Mets had worn the hats, for all we know MLB could have fined the team $500K and each player $10K and told them to keep it hush hush or there would be more coming.

The fact the Mets did indeed try and push the issue even after being given an outright NO should be enough IMO!

I think your anger (justified BTW) should be focused towards MLB for threatening players who wanted to honor and recognize a very emotional and sensitive day and were promptly told to eff off by MLB!

If the NFL can put aside certain rules and regulations, I cant see why MLB had such a hard on!
 

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