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Verlander gets win #24

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CAROLINA BOSOX

Active member
Aug 12, 2008
3,012
13
Goose Creek, SC
Might be a dumb question but, is everyone selling their Verlander stuff? I bought a 2005 BC auto BGS 9.5 at the beginning of the year for 125 and was considering selling and buying back next year. Anyone else unloading right now?
 

Topnotchsy

Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
Aug 7, 2008
9,446
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CAROLINA BOSOX said:
Might be a dumb question but, is everyone selling their Verlander stuff? I bought a 2005 BC auto BGS 9.5 at the beginning of the year for 125 and was considering selling and buying back next year. Anyone else unloading right now?
I've sold everything I had. I sold some a bit early, but it's impossible to predict this level of success (with any sort of accuracy) and odds are pretty significantly in favor of prices dropping. Without trying to take away anything from a historic season, he's been very lucky recently in the wins column, winning 4 games in his last 10 where he gave up either 3 or 4 runs, (without a single loss or no decision.) He's also sporting an impossibly low BAA which is probably partially due to luck as well (while he's striking out a nice number of guys, it is not like it is a historic pace by any stretch of the imagination.)
 

CAROLINA BOSOX

Active member
Aug 12, 2008
3,012
13
Goose Creek, SC
Topnotchsy said:
CAROLINA BOSOX said:
Might be a dumb question but, is everyone selling their Verlander stuff? I bought a 2005 BC auto BGS 9.5 at the beginning of the year for 125 and was considering selling and buying back next year. Anyone else unloading right now?
I've sold everything I had. I sold some a bit early, but it's impossible to predict this level of success (with any sort of accuracy) and odds are pretty significantly in favor of prices dropping. Without trying to take away anything from a historic season, he's been very lucky recently in the wins column, winning 4 games in his last 10 where he gave up either 3 or 4 runs, (without a single loss or no decision.) He's also sporting an impossibly low BAA which is probably partially due to luck as well (while he's striking out a nice number of guys, it is not like it is a historic pace by any stretch of the imagination.)

I guess if I can double my money I should probably do the same. Thanks!
 

Pine Tar

Active member
Mar 1, 2009
27,701
12
Oswego,Illinois
Also this as well
Verlander (24-5) won his 12th straight start, pitching three-hit ball over eight innings. He struck out six and walked three, extending his scoreless streak to 17 innings.

MVP, CY Young, White House invite, and keys to Detroit and what ever else you can think of. :lol:
 

AmishDave

Featured Contributor, Collector Showcase, Senior M
Sep 19, 2009
12,383
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Ely, MN
And I'm the dumb one to keep buying ::facepalm::

Hope he gets 25. I know his ERA isn't there and he's had a few starts of non-epic proportion, but he's been lights out 80% of the time. He's gotta at least be a top 3 MVP vote getter, IMO.
 

RL24

New member
Dec 12, 2008
3,469
4
Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Verlander 3 outs away from win #24

/\ Well, I think he's been better than that. CC has been lights out 80% of the time this year. That really isn't very good. Well, not MVP good anyway.

Verlander has had a lot of luck this year (it's true, he really has) but he has also had some absolutely dominating performances, like yesterday's game. He really might deserve to win MVP even though he's a starting pitcher. Amazing!

shephech said:
zach said:
Hopefully he doesn't turn into Barry Zito next season.

Not to worry... he won't.

That's the thing though, that's what they said about Barry Zito! I mean, the Giants gave him 7 years / $126 million (at the time, it was the largest pitcher contract in baseball history) and he promptly began sucking. They give him ~$18mil a year. In 2008 he got paid all those millions to go 10-17 with an ERA of 5.15. He had the most losses in the league. That same year the Giants paid Lincecum $450,000 and he won the Cy Young. And 2008 wasn't his only bad year... since joining the Giants he has gone 43-61 with an ERA of 4.52 and been paid $80,000,000. :eek:


Any pitcher can start sucking at any time. Sometimes it's permanent. Sometimes the pitcher then goes into the insane asylum. You just never know... and it's really hard to see it coming!
 

burke23

New member
Nov 12, 2010
573
1
Re: Verlander 3 outs away from win #24

RL24 said:
That's the thing though, that's what they said about Barry Zito! I mean, the Giants gave him 7 years / $126 million (at the time, it was the largest pitcher contract in baseball history) and he promptly began sucking. They give him ~$18mil a year. In 2008 he got paid all those millions to go 10-17 with an ERA of 5.15. He had the most losses in the league. That same year the Giants paid Lincecum $450,000 and he won the Cy Young. And 2008 wasn't his only bad year... since joining the Giants he has gone 43-61 with an ERA of 4.52 and been paid $80,000,000. :eek:


Any pitcher can start sucking at any time. Sometimes it's permanent. Sometimes the pitcher then goes into the insane asylum. You just never know... and it's really hard to see it coming!

Huge difference. Zito was declining before he signed the big contract (1.40 WHIP in 2 of 3 seasons previous to the contract, which is horrendous), and no one thought that it was a good signing (not anyone with half a brain, anyway). Zito also never had a season like Verlanders this year...he had one pitch and (at the time) a 90 MPH fastball to go with it. When that one pitch wasn't as effective, and that fastball lost even more velocity, he got eaten up. Shouldn't be the case for Verlander (unfortunately for my Twins).
 

Topnotchsy

Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
Aug 7, 2008
9,446
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Re: Verlander 3 outs away from win #24

burke23 said:
RL24 said:
That's the thing though, that's what they said about Barry Zito! I mean, the Giants gave him 7 years / $126 million (at the time, it was the largest pitcher contract in baseball history) and he promptly began sucking. They give him ~$18mil a year. In 2008 he got paid all those millions to go 10-17 with an ERA of 5.15. He had the most losses in the league. That same year the Giants paid Lincecum $450,000 and he won the Cy Young. And 2008 wasn't his only bad year... since joining the Giants he has gone 43-61 with an ERA of 4.52 and been paid $80,000,000. :eek:


Any pitcher can start sucking at any time. Sometimes it's permanent. Sometimes the pitcher then goes into the insane asylum. You just never know... and it's really hard to see it coming!

Huge difference. Zito was declining before he signed the big contract (1.40 WHIP in 2 of 3 seasons previous to the contract, which is horrendous), and no one thought that it was a good signing (not anyone with half a brain, anyway). Zito also never had a season like Verlanders this year...he had one pitch and (at the time) a 90 MPH fastball to go with it. When that one pitch wasn't as effective, and that fastball lost even more velocity, he got eaten up. Shouldn't be the case for Verlander (unfortunately for my Twins).

Agreed. The Zito signing was IMO one of the most difficult to explain in the history of baseball given that his numbers were already heading in the wrong direction before he became a free agent.
 

RL24

New member
Dec 12, 2008
3,469
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Colorado Springs, CO
Well, I dunno... do you guys think Porcello is done fer? His WHIP this year is 1.4 and his ERA is a full run higher than Zito's was in his last year with the A's. And he only has 14 wins on a team that he could have 24 wins for at this point, and Zito won 16 games with only 4.44 run support vs Porcello's 5.85. I think he's going to have a great future, and if you let him face 8 hitters and a pitcher instead of 9 hitters, I bet he'd have an even better future. So I can see why the Giants thought it would be a good idea to sign Zito, and that he would turn it around.

Of course, I never did understand why they wanted to pay him SO much money. Although it did make a little more sense than when the Phillies gave Howard all that money when there was no second place bidder....
 

burke23

New member
Nov 12, 2010
573
1
RL24 said:
Well, I dunno... do you guys think Porcello is done fer? His WHIP this year is 1.4 and his ERA is a full run higher than Zito's was in his last year with the A's. And he only has 14 wins on a team that he could have 24 wins for at this point, and Zito won 16 games with only 4.44 run support vs Porcello's 5.85. I think he's going to have a great future, and if you let him face 8 hitters and a pitcher instead of 9 hitters, I bet he'd have an even better future. So I can see why the Giants thought it would be a good idea to sign Zito, and that he would turn it around.

Of course, I never did understand why they wanted to pay him SO much money. Although it did make a little more sense than when the Phillies gave Howard all that money when there was no second place bidder....

Huge difference there is Porcello is young (22? 23?) and (arguably) has not peaked. There is no decline for Porcello to speak of, where there was an obvious one (well, obvious to everyone but Sabean) with Zito. Wins mean little, so don't let that cloud your vision. If Porcello does not progress in the next 2-3 years, he will probably be what he is currently - serviceable, not reliable #/4 or #/5. I don't watch the Tigers to know why he can't put it together as he seems to have the talent.

As for the Howard deal...that was just as criminal...but I don't want to start that fist-fight here :) Still, I don't know who else would have come close to the Zito deal that the Giants offered that...same with the Nats and Werth.
 

CAROLINA BOSOX

Active member
Aug 12, 2008
3,012
13
Goose Creek, SC
Verlander has also thrown a no hitter this year and came very close to a second. I think alot of people have forgotten that since he did it so early in the year.
 

Randy Shields

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2008
2,224
441
OH-IO
Re: Verlander 3 outs away from win #24

RL24 said:
/\ Well, I think he's been better than that. CC has been lights out 80% of the time this year. That really isn't very good. Well, not MVP good anyway.

Verlander has had a lot of luck this year (it's true, he really has) but he has also had some absolutely dominating performances, like yesterday's game. He really might deserve to win MVP even though he's a starting pitcher. Amazing!


Oh brother, here we go again.....

Verlander is an extremely talented pitcher who wins off of that and Not LUCK!!! ::facepalm:: ::facepalm:: ::facepalm::

He has NOT won 24 games with luck either! It was just a matter of time before he put it all together and I think most people would agree with that. He's a lock for the Cy Young and should get an awful lot of consideration for MVP. IF, before then, he scratched a lottery ticket and hit a million dollars then THAT would be luck!

Porcello is young. He won't turn 23 until December 27th. That's very young and his learning curve has basically been in the Major leagues since he came up in '09. He has nowhere to go but up. He's is a sinker-ball pitched and when he is throwing his sinker well he's very tough. But he's been leaving it up a lot this year and he's been hit pretty good. He should stay right where he's at and there is no reason he should go to the National league.

When he gets more time under his belt and gets better control of his sinker, and gets better control of his 2 and 4 seam fastball, slider, curveball, and change-up he will win a lot more and that will not be based on "luck" either.

Also with the price of his auto's RC's right now he may very well be one of the best investments out there for those looking to profit down the road.
 

braden

New member
Aug 7, 2008
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You know, it's possible to be very, very good as well as lucky. In fact, I'd argue that truly great seasons require a good deal of luck. None of that is a knock on the pitcher himself. It's weird that you seem to think it is.

Verlander has been the best pitcher in the AL this year. I don't think he's miles ahead of Sabathia, especially when you account for strength of opponent etc but he has most definitely been the best. But it's also true, some of Verlander's rate stats have given him a fair amount of good luck. Not nearly enough to say he's having a fluky season- and nobody has even hinted at that- but it has contributed. And that, of course, is fine.
 

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