How can this be? Red Sox autos - Williams and Yaz

I posted a pic of a ball in a different thread tonight, and that got me thinking about this one...

This ball was a gift from my great my great uncle who was a sports reporter for a paper in MA in the 50's and early 60's (sorry for the repeat if you read the other thread).

Here is my question...how can this ball be signed by both Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski (and others from the 1960 team) when Yaz joined the club in 1961 and Williams left after the 1960 season? In 1960 Yaz was playing for the minor league Minneapolis Millers (a Red Sox affiliate at the time). Another odd thing is that Chuck Schilling is also on this ball - he also played for the Millers in 1960 and joined the Red Sox in 1961.

It is possible that this was at a post season event, or that this was actually signed at Spring Training in 1960 (I have other signed items from Williams at Spring Training). But, I was wondering if anyone has a different/better explanation for the names on this ball.

Here are the two main pics:



Yaz is above Carroll Hardy and Chuck Shilling

For anyone interested, here are the other sides of the ball:




Thanks for the help! This has bothered me for years.

Ball started out signed on sweet spot by williams and the rest were added later

::facepalm:: For whatever reason, I never thought of that. Given the way the signatures fit together, I had an image of it getting passed around a locker room somewhere. I also thought it was the same pen - doesn't look it so much in the pics - but in person it looks more likely. Higgins, the name under Williams, was the manager in both 1960 and 61. The mix of names, though, still makes it odd.

Certainly a possibility. Thanks Tom.

The inclusion of Wertz would make the window for 61 much shorter (he was gone 2/3 of the way through the season). The inclusion of Wilbur Wood would make me think it's more of a 61 ball as well. My best guess would be that it's some kind of spring training ball or something to that effect.

Edit: The inclusion of both Wood and Schwall really make me think it's a 61 ball, along with Jensen (he was retired during the 60 season). It could indeed be a "Franken-Ball" as described earlier, but I'm guessing it's more likely a spring training ball from 61. Certainly a cool one to have, especially with the inclusion of York on it.

Edit Edit: More fuel for the "spring training" ball idea is the inclusion of Tom Borland. He only lasted 1 game into the 1961 season.

This happened the same way that a guy recently got a Mantle signature and Harper signature on the same ball. Had a Mantle single signed baseball, and got Bryce Harper to sign it after a game ::facepalm:: ...

nice ball

my guess would be spring training either 1960 or 1961

Yaz (.377 in 1959, .339 in 1960) and a few of the other Millers should have been there in 1960, and Williams could have been hanging with the team in 1961 Spring Training, or even during the season
for this fact that both are on same vintage signed ball... Id value it slightly more than the common 1960 or 61 Team Ball.

Great info, guys, thanks.

The 1960/61 Spring Training idea makes sense as I know my uncle was there for the paper. But, I guess no way to know for sure.

It is certainly NFS. But, I have never put a value on it. Any thoughts?

Sean_C said:

Certainly a cool one to have, especially with the inclusion of York on it.

Click to expand...

I am glad I dusted this one and posted the pics. I had not thought about some of the other names on here very much. As for York, here is how he got on here (from Wikipedia):

York's post-playing baseball career included stints as a manager in the low minor leagues, scouting posts with the New York Yankees and Houston Colt .45s/Astros, and four seasons (1959–62) as the first-base coach for the MLB Red Sox. On July 3, 1959, he served as acting manager of the Red Sox for one game during the interim period between Pinky Higgins' firing and the hiring of Washington Senators coach Billy Jurges as Higgins' permanent successor. Boston lost to the Baltimore Orioles, 6-1, that day.

I like this quote about him: "With one-eighth Cherokee ancestry and less-than-perfect fielding abilities, York prompted one sportswriter to declare: "He is part Indian and part first baseman"."

Some other facts about him:
- he was on the Tigers' roster for the 1934 World Series
- As a rookie catcher, Rudy startled the baseball world. On the last day of August 1937, York belted two home runs, giving him 18 for the month and surpassing the record of 17 set by Babe Ruth in September 1927. York also collected 49 RBI that month breaking by one the mark set by Lou Gehrig, and finished his rookie season with a .303 batting average, 35 home runs, and 103 RBI in only 375 at-bats.
- in 1943 he enjoyed a season career when he led the league in home runs (34), RBI (118), total bases (301), extra base hits (67), slugging percentage (.527) and games played (155), and also he got his second MVP consideration.
- York was a career .275 hitter with 277 home runs and 1152 RBI in 1603 games. In three World Series he hit .221 with three homers and 10 RBI. He was selected for the All-Star Game seven times. York's .503 slugging percentage as a Detroit Tiger ranks #4 in franchise history behind Hank Greenberg, Harry Heilmann, and Ty Cobb. His 239 home runs as a Tiger ranks #7 in franchise history.

Sean_C - thanks for pointing him out. I had not looked into his background before.