Am I being unreasonable here?

I made a deal to buy a lot of 295 refractors for $350 with a guy on blowout (not sure if he's a member here or not)

Here is what I was supposed to be getting (I bolded the bread and butter):

1 Red /25
2 Gold /50
5 Purple /499
3 Black /100
13 Blue /99
23 Atomic /225
210 Sepia /99
27 Orange /Not Numbered

2011 Bowman Chrome:
CC Blue /150
Jimmy Rollins Blue /150
Carlos Beltran Blue /150
Brian McCann Orange /25

2011 Finest
Cashner Orange /99
Werth Gold /50
Drabek /549
Pujols /549
Votto /549
Chipper /299
Nick Markakis Dual Relic Auto /274


I paid immediately. Today he messages me and says that when he was packaging up the cards he "miscounted" and 44 of the sepia refractors were actually REGULAR refractors. He offered a partial refund or to replace them with 55 regular refractors and xfractors (yeah right)

So I initially asked him for a partial refund of $65 ($1.50 per card) as I thought that was a fair value for 44 sepia refractors #'d/99...he balked and said that wasn't fair.

He offered a $40 refund (which is less than $1 per card) or some game used card he said sold for $48 on ebay. I told him that was REALLY unreasonable as we had an agreement, I paid for that agreement, and it was HIS mistake, not mine. There was no way I was going to pay MORE per card for his error.

I tried being cordial and reasonable and even offered to take a partial refund on what I was paying per card (a little over $1.18). He is not backing down and is only offering a $40 refund.

I think he's regretting selling the cards and is trying to pinch more pennies out of me.

Here's the kicker, I had him post an auction ebay so I could use my ebay bucks to pay for some of it. So he has an agreement with me on ebay and BO.

Here is the last few messages. I mean what else can I do?


Yes, we DO have an agreement of what you actually have. I have ALREADY paid for the cards you currently have.

I have also paid for cards you DON'T have. That is the issue.

I wasn't threatening your ebay account. I was reminding you about your obligations. I really don't want to have to bring a mod into this or ebay into this.

Please refund me what I paid per card for the missing cards and send the other cards out. I don't want a full refund. I want the cards I paid for and a refund for the cards you don't have that I paid for.

st0lenbase said:

I understand where you're coming from. We had an agreement for something I cannot fulfill though.
We don't have an agreement for what I actually do have after inventory of the cards.
I understand the threat you are leveraging on me as far as my ebay account is concerned...I get it.
I stated what I'm willing to do for the cards I actually have...if you don't want to complete that deal, a full refund will be issued after I receive your response.
Sorry for wasting your time and I apologize for miscalculating the number of refractors I had.

markakis8 said:

You are being unreasonable and borderline inappropriate. You are not getting it. We already came to a deal and I already paid for that agreement.

I want my end of the bargain, I don't want a full refund. I want the cards I paid for. I would like a partial refund on the amount of cards missing on what I paid PER card and nothing less. That is $1.186 per card. I will be nice (for the last time, I'm losing patience) and round down to $1.18. $1.18 x 44 cards is $51.92. This is the refund amount I would like. I am not going to pay more per card, especially with what types of cards are missing.

You simply can't throw in extra numbers and book values - which are irrelevant - to try and make you an extra buck. I'm not sure you realize that's what you are doing, maybe you do, maybe you don't. You are essentially trying to make me pay MORE than what we originally agreed upon and I ALREADY paid for. It does not matter what the book values are or how much money you'll have left over after you ship the cards.

Please remember that we have an agreement here and we also have an agreement on ebay as well. I hope that you will follow through on your end.

st0lenbase said:

And I appreciate it and would like to work with you as well. I don't think I'm being unreasonable though. I understand I miscalculated and thought I had more of the sepia refractors then I ended up having. However, when I had '210' of them, plus the other cards included that are /100 and less, there were a total of 230 cards /100 or less, so if i was charging 1.50/card that was numbered that low, those would have been $345 alone, plus all of the other atomics, bowman chrome, finest that are included.
I understand that I made the mistake and I do apologize. I am willing to lower the price down to 310 which will still net me less then 300 after packaging/shipping. I understand if you do not wish to complete the transaction on those terms. If that is the case I will refund your money tonight.

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The seller is just acting ridiculous. It is HIS mistake. You want essentially a $50 refund and he is willing to give you $40, since it was 100% HIS mistake, there is only $10 separating you guys and that is his burden to meet you in the middle as he was 100% at fault. He should eat the $10 for his mistake you are not at fault

The guy messed up, he's the one who takes the hit...even though the "hit" is simply to refund you the money you paid. Very clear based on this information that you are right and he is wrong. He should be refunding you your money for the cards HE miscounted.

Hey C,

I think if he won't meet your refund request, I'd just cancel the whole thing and move on...

GL no matter what you decide!

I'd get my money back. It's not your fault he didn't realize what he was selling in the first place.

gt2590 said:

Hey C,

I think if he won't meet your refund request, I'd just cancel the whole thing and move on...

GL no matter what you decide!

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I have a feeling that's what he wants as well. I'd hate to leave him negative feedback over this - he has 100% rating. I'm trying to do everything and I possibly can within reason to make that NOT happen.

markakis8 said:

gt2590 said:

Hey C,

I think if he won't meet your refund request, I'd just cancel the whole thing and move on...

GL no matter what you decide!

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I have a feeling that's what he wants as well. I'd hate to leave him negative feedback over this - he has 100% rating. I'm trying to do everything and I possibly can within reason to make that NOT happen.

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There's no way he doesn't get a neg unless he gives you the money he owes you and completes the deal.

He just refunded the $255 I paid outside of ebay in full but did not refund the $106 I paid on ebay with my ebay bucks (I paid a little extra to cover his ebay fees since it was my request).

Does he have something up his sleeve? Am I protected with this $106 even though it was ebay bucks?

EDIT: Nevermind, he refunded that too. Went straight to my ebay bucks.

markakis8 said:

He just refunded the $255 I paid outside of ebay in full but did not refund the $106 I paid on ebay with my ebay bucks (I paid a little extra to cover his ebay fees since it was my request).

Does he have something up his sleeve? Am I protected with this $106 even though it was ebay bucks?

EDIT: Nevermind, he refunded that too. Went straight to my ebay bucks.

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I would still leave a neg. C'mon it was $10 more bucks for him. Even if that took away from his profit, he owed you it because that mistake was HIS fault. Gotta drop the n bomb here

Here was his response after he refunded me (read from bottom up):

st0lenbase said:

Well we had an agreement for 210 sepia's plus other cards that I agreed to--We never had an agreement for 166 sepia's plus cards that I agreed to. I'm sorry we couldn't come to a middle ground for a new deal for the cards I did possess to get them to you.
I have issued a full refund for the 106.00 from ebay and the 255.00 that went directly through paypal. Feel free to have any of the MOD's contact me.

markakis8 said:

I'm not asking you to ship them out for $285 dlvd. I'm asking you to refund me $51.92 which is $298.08 dlvd.

You are not in a position to make me another offer. I already agreed to your ORIGINAL offer and paid for it. Just b/c 44 cards are "missing" doesn't mean you can renegotiate a deal.

And yes, there will be a need to get someone else involved if you don't follow through on your rend.

st0lenbase said:

There is no need to get anyone else involved--i'm not shipping the cards to you for $285 DLVD. Period. If you don't accept my offer to purchase what I do have, for what I have stated previously, which it sounds like you don't...I will be refunding your $350.

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homerun28aa said:

markakis8 said:

He just refunded the $255 I paid outside of ebay in full but did not refund the $106 I paid on ebay with my ebay bucks (I paid a little extra to cover his ebay fees since it was my request).

Does he have something up his sleeve? Am I protected with this $106 even though it was ebay bucks?

EDIT: Nevermind, he refunded that too. Went straight to my ebay bucks.

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I would still leave a neg. C'mon it was $10 more bucks for him. Even if that took away from his profit, he owed you it because that mistake was HIS fault. Gotta drop the n bomb here

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Yeah that's what I'm going to do, I hate doing it but there is a clear line of principle being shredded here.

I honestly think he didn't even want to sell them for $350 in the first place. Funny thing is, $350 was HIS asking price, not my offer.

Negative. He's full of ****. Nine dollars is clearly more important to him than his 100% feedback. It's his own fault, do what needs to happen so he learns not to go back on deals again.

Jesus ::facepalm::

st0lenbase was his Blowout name in case anyone wants to avoid him in the future.

His ebay ID is stolenbase29

"You are being unreasonable and borderline inappropriate."

I'm not sure that comment by you was constructive. Based on the dialogue, the seller sounds perfectly reasonable. To be clear, before the deal was set in place, was there a specific dollar amount that you two agreed upon to pay per sepia, per black refractor, per base, per whatever etc? If not, then you absolutely have no reason to demand a specific dollar figure refund per sepia refractor refractor that he can't fill. It seems like this is what happened: you two agree on a deal, x number of cards for x dollars. The seller can't fill y number of cards which is absolutely his fault, but that doesn't mean that you can ask for a specific dollar amount per sepia that he can't fill without negotiating with him first. If you both can't come to an agreed upon refund price, then I would just say no deal and cancel the ebay transaction.

If I were the seller, I wouldn't be arguing over a dispute that amounts to 5-10% of the total transaction value, especially considering it was my mistake, but I don't think that the seller is being unreasonable at all. Because he doesn't have the cards, a new negotiation should take place. There is no need to hold him hostage because he explained his situation in a cordial tone, and bottom line is, **** happens.

bballcardkid said:

"You are being unreasonable and borderline inappropriate."

I'm not sure that comment by you was constructive. Based on the dialogue, the seller sounds perfectly reasonable. To be clear, before the deal was set in place, was there a specific dollar amount that you two agreed upon to pay per sepia, per black refractor, per base, per whatever etc? If not, then you absolutely have no reason to demand a specific dollar figure refund per sepia refractor refractor that he can't fill. It seems like this is what happened: you two agree on a deal, x number of cards for x dollars. The seller can't fill y number of cards which is absolutely his fault, but that doesn't mean that you can ask for a specific dollar amount per sepia that he can't fill without negotiating with him first. If you both can't come to an agreed upon refund price, then I would just say no deal and cancel the ebay transaction.

If I were the seller, I wouldn't be arguing over a dispute that amounts to 5-10% of the total transaction value, especially considering it was my mistake, but I don't think that the seller is being unreasonable at all. Because he doesn't have the cards, a new negotiation should take place. There is no need to hold him hostage because he explained his situation in a cordial tone, and bottom line is, **** happens.

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I'm not sure where you think I'm holding him hostage. Our PMs back and forth were actually very cordial until he tried to get more money out of me per card than what we originally agreed upon. And even then, there wasn't any name-calling or threats. I never threatened to leave him negative feedback. I never mentioned those words.

And, no a new negotiation should NOT take place. You may be right about me trying to demand a specific price but when he initially offered a partial refund, I took the opportunity to let him know what I thought was fair. I agreed to a price per card and paid for it immediately. There is no reason a new negotiation should open up and I should be the one to pay more per card b/c of his mistake. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

markakis8 said:

bballcardkid said:

"You are being unreasonable and borderline inappropriate."

I'm not sure that comment by you was constructive. Based on the dialogue, the seller sounds perfectly reasonable. To be clear, before the deal was set in place, was there a specific dollar amount that you two agreed upon to pay per sepia, per black refractor, per base, per whatever etc? If not, then you absolutely have no reason to demand a specific dollar figure refund per sepia refractor refractor that he can't fill. It seems like this is what happened: you two agree on a deal, x number of cards for x dollars. The seller can't fill y number of cards which is absolutely his fault, but that doesn't mean that you can ask for a specific dollar amount per sepia that he can't fill without negotiating with him first. If you both can't come to an agreed upon refund price, then I would just say no deal and cancel the ebay transaction.

If I were the seller, I wouldn't be arguing over a dispute that amounts to 5-10% of the total transaction value, especially considering it was my mistake, but I don't think that the seller is being unreasonable at all. Because he doesn't have the cards, a new negotiation should take place. There is no need to hold him hostage because he explained his situation in a cordial tone, and bottom line is, shat happens.

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I'm not sure where you think I'm holding him hostage. Our PMs back and forth were actually very cordial until he tried to get more money out of me per card than what we originally agreed upon. And even then, there wasn't any name-calling or threats. I never threatened to leave him negative feedback. I never mentioned those words.

And, no a new negotiation should NOT take place. You may be right about me trying to demand a specific price but when he initially offered a partial refund, I took the opportunity to let him know what I thought was fair. I agreed to a price per card and paid for it immediately. There is no reason a new negotiation should open up and I should be the one to pay more per card b/c of his mistake. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

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That's initially what I asked, and you might actually want to clarify that in your original post. Did you in fact ORIGINALLY agree to pay $1.50 roughly per sepia? If this was agreed upon, and both sides were clear, then you are absolutely justified in asking for approximately $1.50 per sepia that the seller can't provide as a refund. If you and the seller did NOT agree to this value explicitly, then you are not justified in asking for $1.50 per sepia. Your $1.18 counter was very reasonable, and the seller probably should have taken it, but I don't think they are really obligated to do so. To me, it would be very easy to just say no deal and move on because the seller doesn't have 295 various refractors for $350 (210 which are sepia). The deal has now changed to 295 various refractors (176 are sepia) for X price. That X price needs to be renegotiated between you and the seller, and if no agreement can be reached, I would just say no deal and ask for a refund. Again, if I were the seller, I would see that I made a mistake and go above and beyond at pleasing the buyer, but understand that the seller is not obligated to do this. The dude probably made a simple mistake, I doubt he's trying to back out of a deal over a couple bucks. He just places a different value on the sepia refractors than you apparently.

wow, when did refractors make such a comeback?

I can't see negging the guy when his basic argument its that the sepias are not worth the same per card as the reds, etc. It sounds like he had a flat figure in mind for the lot, with no per card price defined. If so, I doubt you'll get much mod support over there.

Wait, 295 ref @ $350 = $1.18 per card. So if it were the red refractor, gold refractors, or any of the names that were missing would you only want a refund of $1.18 each for those too?