Skip Bayless Implies PED Usage For Derek Jeter

[Topnotchsy]

How is something legal in baseball, when it's illegal (unless you have a prescription) in America?

It might be illegal but it may not affect how his performance is viewed. Many nonperformance enhancing drugs are illegal but no one would say that a player on LSD's stats should not count.-

 

[gmsieb]

Unless anyone on FCB can prove him innocent or guilty, Skip has as much of a right to his opinion as we do. I'd guess, many of our heroes were/are using from the 80s'-Now. In some sports, well before that. My friend in HS, who ended up playing pro football for 5-6 years, was using back in 86. I'm sure, if HS kids were using in 86, the pros were using long before that. All we can really do is hope our favorites are clean, but there is just too much money at stake for us to be so naive, in assuming their innocence. In reply to a few things said in this thread. I don't think HGH was ever legal in the MLB, there just wasn't a rule stating it was illegal, just as there wasn't a rule saying roids were illegal. I'd guess there wasn't a rule in 1972 stating that crack was illegal to use in the MLB either. The drugs were illegal to use in our country, the MLB didn't need a ruling on it. I don't understand why people take it so personal, when one of their guys get accused. It's a game, these are humans, people we don't even know, but admire, for a skill, we wish we had. We have no clue what they have done to improve their odds. Most of these guys couldn't give 2 S^&Ts about us, yet people get bent out of shape, if someone says one bad word about their favorite player. As long as there are millions at stake, people will cheat. Many have and many still are. I'm not a yankee fan, but I have always respected Jeter. I have always assumed him to be clean, but there is as mush of a chance he is dirty as there was for melky, benito santiago, or pettite. Andy seems to be a great man, father and the rest. It's just to easy to give in, when you can secure your families future for the next 4 generations with a 4 year contract. From what I have read or heard from friends lately, the makers of these drugs are so ahead of testing, its not even fair. They are creating PEDS that leave the body quickly and leave no trace. MLB doesn't even have a test for HGH, so how do we know if all these guys aren't using that today. If you/me were 36 and things looked done and a friend/doctor offered us HGH, told us how to use it and past tests, and we could prolong our career 3 years and make another 30 million, I'm guessing many of us would give in and take it. So, why the hell would we assume these guys are all clean and get pissed off, when someone who has more inside knowledge than us, assumes they aren't?? I was a Tiger Woods fan for years, it's faded a little over the years. I always wondered about whether he was clean or not. I always suspected the reason for Duvals rise and fall, in attempt to catch Tiger, was caused by PED usage. I'm no PED expert and don't claim to be, but I have had quite a few friends that did use. And these guys were using in all the sports, basketball, golf, football, you name the sport. When I heard that Tiger was seeing the same doctor in Canada, that Arod was using/seeing, it was even more easy to believe. The signs of roids are more obvious to catch than HGH or other PEDS. A major sign is knee problems. Big mac retired because of his knees. Our knees and joints weren't created to carry the body that roids build for them. I'm not referring to an obvious knee injury, those have been around for years. But we are seeing a lot of athletes now, in all sports, just ending up with bad knees and it is happening early, Utley for example or even Arod. Now Tiger has bad knees. I have no knowledge of Tiger ever using, but how can we assume he hasn't. I'm 42 and I'm sure guys older than me will second this. What the hell is an oblique injury. Did 5 guys a year on every team, miss 2-3 weeks every season from an injured oblique, like they are now. The injuries these guys are having now, had never even been heard of. I played sports, as did my brother. We played everything, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and even a little track, as a sprinter. When I talk to my dad and brother, we can't think of one friend or other player who ever had an oblique injury. My dad held the LA county HS record in the high jump until Dwight Stones beat it and then went on to Olympic gold. My uncle was drafted by the cards out of HS and was offered a full scholarship to usc, for baseball. He coached in LA for years at a big baseball HS and sent plenty players on to college and a few to the pros. He hasn't heard of this stuff and can't explain it. Something had changed. Some people blame the yanks and a yankee fan in this thread, responded back. The one org., I would say who has had the biggest impact is the A's. I grew up in the same city, that canseco and big mac lived in, we always knew they were dirty, but there were plenty of rumors about rickey and dave henderson, and then on too tejada, giambi, and even chavez. Plenty of others also. The year, Ricky was elected into the HOF, I don't remember the source, but it was a big name, and it/they/he suggested, we just elected out first roid user into the HOF. But the comment, didn't suggest the name of the player, just that one was in. To me it would be naive to think this is the first, but somebody must have known about this player. I assumed, they meant Rickey, who was a hero of mine growing up. In defense of the yanks, many of the guys that are talked about, came from other teams and were using long before being a yankee. Such as Arod, Sheffield, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens and more than likely Reuben sierra, just to name a few. People assumed Manny was clean, in my head I had him as a user from day one. And people use the "This guys stats have been the same his whole career, so he must be clean" line. This proves nothing. In some cases, it's easy to see the starting point, like a brady anderson. But, If a guy was using since HS, why would we see a huge change. They would just always be great. Many assume, Pujols to be dirty, because of his body and many have defended him with the mentioned proof. But how do we know he wasnt using in HS? We don't.


The bottom line is, many have used, many are still using, and many will continue to find ways to cheat
But lets remember, it's just a damn game, it's guys/gals playing sports for millions of dollars and fame.
It's to damn easy too cheat and the payoff is too big, to not at least consider it.
So why do we fans get so upset, when someone gets caught or assumed of guilt?

It is all meant to be for fun and entertainment. Save getting pissed or in a fight for something that matters.

 

[nyc3]

Unless anyone on FCB can prove him innocent or guilty, Skip has as much of a right to his opinion as we do. I'd guess, many of our heroes were/are using from the 80s'-Now. In some sports, well before that. My friend in HS, who ended up playing pro football for 5-6 years, was using back in 86. I'm sure, if HS kids were using in 86, the pros were using long before that. All we can really do is hope our favorites are clean, but there is just too much money at stake for us to be so naive, in assuming their innocence. In reply to a few things said in this thread. I don't think HGH was ever legal in the MLB, there just wasn't a rule stating it was illegal, just as there wasn't a rule saying roids were illegal. I'd guess there wasn't a rule in 1972 stating that crack was illegal to use in the MLB either. The drugs were illegal to use in our country, the MLB didn't need a ruling on it. I don't understand why people take it so personal, when one of their guys get accused. It's a game, these are humans, people we don't even know, but admire, for a skill, we wish we had. We have no clue what they have done to improve their odds. Most of these guys couldn't give 2 S^&Ts about us, yet people get bent out of shape, if someone says one bad word about their favorite player. As long as there are millions at stake, people will cheat. Many have and many still are. I'm not a yankee fan, but I have always respected Jeter. I have always assumed him to be clean, but there is as mush of a chance he is dirty as there was for melky, benito santiago, or pettite. Andy seems to be a great man, father and the rest. It's just to easy to give in, when you can secure your families future for the next 4 generations with a 4 year contract. From what I have read or heard from friends lately, the makers of these drugs are so ahead of testing, its not even fair. They are creating PEDS that leave the body quickly and leave no trace. MLB doesn't even have a test for HGH, so how do we know if all these guys aren't using that today. If you/me were 36 and things looked done and a friend/doctor offered us HGH, told us how to use it and past tests, and we could prolong our career 3 years and make another 30 million, I'm guessing many of us would give in and take it. So, why the hell would we assume these guys are all clean and get pissed off, when someone who has more inside knowledge than us, assumes they aren't?? I was a Tiger Woods fan for years, it's faded a little over the years. I always wondered about whether he was clean or not. I always suspected the reason for Duvals rise and fall, in attempt to catch Tiger, was caused by PED usage. I'm no PED expert and don't claim to be, but I have had quite a few friends that did use. And these guys were using in all the sports, basketball, golf, football, you name the sport. When I heard that Tiger was seeing the same doctor in Canada, that Arod was using/seeing, it was even more easy to believe. The signs of roids are more obvious to catch than HGH or other PEDS. A major sign is knee problems. Big mac retired because of his knees. Our knees and joints weren't created to carry the body that roids build for them. I'm not referring to an obvious knee injury, those have been around for years. But we are seeing a lot of athletes now, in all sports, just ending up with bad knees and it is happening early, Utley for example or even Arod. Now Tiger has bad knees. I have no knowledge of Tiger ever using, but how can we assume he hasn't. I'm 42 and I'm sure guys older than me will second this. What the hell is an oblique injury. Did 5 guys a year on every team, miss 2-3 weeks every season from an injured oblique, like they are now. The injuries these guys are having now, had never even been heard of. I played sports, as did my brother. We played everything, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and even a little track, as a sprinter. When I talk to my dad and brother, we can't think of one friend or other player who ever had an oblique injury. My dad held the LA county HS record in the high jump until Dwight Stones beat it and then went on to Olympic gold. My uncle was drafted by the cards out of HS and was offered a full scholarship to usc, for baseball. He coached in LA for years at a big baseball HS and sent plenty players on to college and a few to the pros. He hasn't heard of this stuff and can't explain it. Something had changed. Some people blame the yanks and a yankee fan in this thread, responded back. The one org., I would say who has had the biggest impact is the A's. I grew up in the same city, that canseco and big mac lived in, we always knew they were dirty, but there were plenty of rumors about rickey and dave henderson, and then on too tejada, giambi, and even chavez. Plenty of others also. The year, Ricky was elected into the HOF, I don't remember the source, but it was a big name, and it/they/he suggested, we just elected out first roid user into the HOF. But the comment, didn't suggest the name of the player, just that one was in. To me it would be naive to think this is the first, but somebody must have known about this player. I assumed, they meant Rickey, who was a hero of mine growing up. In defense of the yanks, many of the guys that are talked about, came from other teams and were using long before being a yankee. Such as Arod, Sheffield, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens and more than likely Reuben sierra, just to name a few. People assumed Manny was clean, in my head I had him as a user from day one. And people use the "This guys stats have been the same his whole career, so he must be clean" line. This proves nothing. In some cases, it's easy to see the starting point, like a brady anderson. But, If a guy was using since HS, why would we see a huge change. They would just always be great. Many assume, Pujols to be dirty, because of his body and many have defended him with the mentioned proof. But how do we know he wasnt using in HS? We don't.


The bottom line is, many have used, many are still using, and many will continue to find ways to cheat
But lets remember, it's just a damn game, it's guys/gals playing sports for millions of dollars and fame.
It's to damn easy too cheat and the payoff is too big, to not at least consider it.
So why do we fans get so upset, when someone gets caught or assumed of guilt?

It is all meant to be for fun and entertainment. Save getting pissed or in a fight for something that matters.

Hi wall of text, paragraphs are your friend.

 

[Sean_C]

1). I'll say this; anyone and everyone that has played in the past 20 years is suspect at this point, and more likely than not has at least been using amphetamines (baseball's not so dirty little secret)
2). However, to single out Jeter is a gutless, craven move by Blayless, and he should either be fired, sued, or both.

 

[gmsieb]

People cheat in our hobby, by trimming or altering a card, and they do this for a few extra bucks. How much easier would it be to justify trimming a card, even for the best of us, if the payoff was a 5 year 110 million dollar contract.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

That is the longest paragraph I've ever seen and I quit after two sentences because my eyes hurt. It has nothing to do with whether or not he has a right to an opinion - just that this opinion, like so many of his opinions is based on nothing but innuendo, foolish logic, and flimsy or non-existent evidence. And someone working for any national media voice should be much more responsible than that.

And of course it is possible that he has used or is using. It is also possible that he will kill someone in 15 years like O.J. did but that still doesn't make it very smart or responsible for one to go on national TV and imply he is or could be a murderer.

 

[gmsieb]

Hi wall of text, paragraphs are your friend.

Are you saying Hi to me, or trying to state that it is a high wall of text??? Either way, thanks.

 

[gmsieb]

"And of course it is possible that he has used or is using. It is also possible that he will kill someone in 15 years like O.J. did but that still doesn't make it very smart or responsible for one to go on national TV and imply he is or could be a murderer.[/QUOTE]

In my eyes, there is a fairly large gap between using PEDs and murder. It, could just be me though.

 

[George_Calfas]

Bayless mentioned Jeter simply because he hit his third HR in as many night, something he has never done, kinda like Melky, a career .270 hitter batting .340 this year.

The point of his argument was to say that the guilty have brought a Spector of suspicion upon the clean.

 

[D-Lite]

1). I'll say this; anyone and everyone that has played in the past 20 years is suspect at this point, and more likely than not has at least been using amphetamines (baseball's not so dirty little secret)
2). However, to single out Jeter is a gutless, craven move by Blayless, and he should either be fired, sued, or both.

Thank you. No one is saying anyone is innocent in all of this, but to basically make a mark by throwing out a wild accusation at one of the people that's held in the highest respect in the game is completely transparent. Bayless has nothing to add to the conversation except to make his voice heard. He's a raging idiot in general and an embarassment to sportswriters around the globe.

Bayless mentioned Jeter simply because he hit his third HR in as many night, something he has never done, kinda like Melky, a career .270 hitter batting .340 this year.

The point of his argument was to say that the guilty have brought a Spector of suspicion upon the clean.

Yes, but Melky had no prior career marks near his recent performance. 3 HR's in consecutive games is just random. Not like the previous 9 HRs were clean and the last 3 games he was on the juice.

 

[George_Calfas]

Yes, but Melky had no prior career marks near his recent performance. 3 HR's in consecutive games is just random. Not like the previous 9 HRs were clean and the last 3 games he was on the juice.

I don't disagree, however it is important to understand the question he poses. He is simply saying that good guys can be brought into the mud because of the bad guys.

Without the steroid era no one would bat an eye at Jeter, at his age, being the highest producing SS in 2012.

 

[gmsieb]

D-lite. The Jeter pic in your signature is sweet looking. JBEL, does some good work.

 

[TNP777]

Unless anyone on FCB can prove him innocent or guilty, Skip has as much of a right to his opinion as we do. I'd guess, many of our heroes were/are using from the 80s'-Now. In some sports, well before that. My friend in HS, who ended up playing pro football for 5-6 years, was using back in 86. I'm sure, if HS kids were using in 86, the pros were using long before that. All we can really do is hope our favorites are clean, but there is just too much money at stake for us to be so naive, in assuming their innocence. In reply to a few things said in this thread. I don't think HGH was ever legal in the MLB, there just wasn't a rule stating it was illegal, just as there wasn't a rule saying roids were illegal. I'd guess there wasn't a rule in 1972 stating that crack was illegal to use in the MLB either. The drugs were illegal to use in our country, the MLB didn't need a ruling on it. I don't understand why people take it so personal, when one of their guys get accused. It's a game, these are humans, people we don't even know, but admire, for a skill, we wish we had. We have no clue what they have done to improve their odds. Most of these guys couldn't give 2 S^&Ts about us, yet people get bent out of shape, if someone says one bad word about their favorite player. As long as there are millions at stake, people will cheat. Many have and many still are. I'm not a yankee fan, but I have always respected Jeter. I have always assumed him to be clean, but there is as mush of a chance he is dirty as there was for melky, benito santiago, or pettite. Andy seems to be a great man, father and the rest. It's just to easy to give in, when you can secure your families future for the next 4 generations with a 4 year contract. From what I have read or heard from friends lately, the makers of these drugs are so ahead of testing, its not even fair. They are creating PEDS that leave the body quickly and leave no trace. MLB doesn't even have a test for HGH, so how do we know if all these guys aren't using that today. If you/me were 36 and things looked done and a friend/doctor offered us HGH, told us how to use it and past tests, and we could prolong our career 3 years and make another 30 million, I'm guessing many of us would give in and take it. So, why the hell would we assume these guys are all clean and get pissed off, when someone who has more inside knowledge than us, assumes they aren't?? I was a Tiger Woods fan for years, it's faded a little over the years. I always wondered about whether he was clean or not. I always suspected the reason for Duvals rise and fall, in attempt to catch Tiger, was caused by PED usage. I'm no PED expert and don't claim to be, but I have had quite a few friends that did use. And these guys were using in all the sports, basketball, golf, football, you name the sport. When I heard that Tiger was seeing the same doctor in Canada, that Arod was using/seeing, it was even more easy to believe. The signs of roids are more obvious to catch than HGH or other PEDS. A major sign is knee problems. Big mac retired because of his knees. Our knees and joints weren't created to carry the body that roids build for them. I'm not referring to an obvious knee injury, those have been around for years. But we are seeing a lot of athletes now, in all sports, just ending up with bad knees and it is happening early, Utley for example or even Arod. Now Tiger has bad knees. I have no knowledge of Tiger ever using, but how can we assume he hasn't. I'm 42 and I'm sure guys older than me will second this. What the hell is an oblique injury. Did 5 guys a year on every team, miss 2-3 weeks every season from an injured oblique, like they are now. The injuries these guys are having now, had never even been heard of. I played sports, as did my brother. We played everything, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and even a little track, as a sprinter. When I talk to my dad and brother, we can't think of one friend or other player who ever had an oblique injury. My dad held the LA county HS record in the high jump until Dwight Stones beat it and then went on to Olympic gold. My uncle was drafted by the cards out of HS and was offered a full scholarship to usc, for baseball. He coached in LA for years at a big baseball HS and sent plenty players on to college and a few to the pros. He hasn't heard of this stuff and can't explain it. Something had changed. Some people blame the yanks and a yankee fan in this thread, responded back. The one org., I would say who has had the biggest impact is the A's. I grew up in the same city, that canseco and big mac lived in, we always knew they were dirty, but there were plenty of rumors about rickey and dave henderson, and then on too tejada, giambi, and even chavez. Plenty of others also. The year, Ricky was elected into the HOF, I don't remember the source, but it was a big name, and it/they/he suggested, we just elected out first roid user into the HOF. But the comment, didn't suggest the name of the player, just that one was in. To me it would be naive to think this is the first, but somebody must have known about this player. I assumed, they meant Rickey, who was a hero of mine growing up. In defense of the yanks, many of the guys that are talked about, came from other teams and were using long before being a yankee. Such as Arod, Sheffield, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens and more than likely Reuben sierra, just to name a few. People assumed Manny was clean, in my head I had him as a user from day one. And people use the "This guys stats have been the same his whole career, so he must be clean" line. This proves nothing. In some cases, it's easy to see the starting point, like a brady anderson. But, If a guy was using since HS, why would we see a huge change. They would just always be great. Many assume, Pujols to be dirty, because of his body and many have defended him with the mentioned proof. But how do we know he wasnt using in HS? We don't.

As I read through this, I thought I detected a pattern. Operating on the hypothesis that this manifesto might be similar to the Bible Code, I went to work.

derek jeter abuses performance enhancing druGs and is mean to PupPies. however, his tears do cure cancer.

There you have it, folks!

 

[carlitoson]

Unless anyone on FCB can prove him innocent or guilty, Skip has as much of a right to his opinion as we do. I'd guess, many of our heroes were/are using from the 80s'-Now. In some sports, well before that. My friend in HS, who ended up playing pro football for 5-6 years, was using back in 86. I'm sure, if HS kids were using in 86, the pros were using long before that. All we can really do is hope our favorites are clean, but there is just too much money at stake for us to be so naive, in assuming their innocence. In reply to a few things said in this thread. I don't think HGH was ever legal in the MLB, there just wasn't a rule stating it was illegal, just as there wasn't a rule saying roids were illegal. I'd guess there wasn't a rule in 1972 stating that crack was illegal to use in the MLB either. The drugs were illegal to use in our country, the MLB didn't need a ruling on it. I don't understand why people take it so personal, when one of their guys get accused. It's a game, these are humans, people we don't even know, but admire, for a skill, we wish we had. We have no clue what they have done to improve their odds. Most of these guys couldn't give 2 S^&Ts about us, yet people get bent out of shape, if someone says one bad word about their favorite player. As long as there are millions at stake, people will cheat. Many have and many still are. I'm not a yankee fan, but I have always respected Jeter. I have always assumed him to be clean, but there is as mush of a chance he is dirty as there was for melky, benito santiago, or pettite. Andy seems to be a great man, father and the rest. It's just to easy to give in, when you can secure your families future for the next 4 generations with a 4 year contract. From what I have read or heard from friends lately, the makers of these drugs are so ahead of testing, its not even fair. They are creating PEDS that leave the body quickly and leave no trace. MLB doesn't even have a test for HGH, so how do we know if all these guys aren't using that today. If you/me were 36 and things looked done and a friend/doctor offered us HGH, told us how to use it and past tests, and we could prolong our career 3 years and make another 30 million, I'm guessing many of us would give in and take it. So, why the hell would we assume these guys are all clean and get pissed off, when someone who has more inside knowledge than us, assumes they aren't?? I was a Tiger Woods fan for years, it's faded a little over the years. I always wondered about whether he was clean or not. I always suspected the reason for Duvals rise and fall, in attempt to catch Tiger, was caused by PED usage. I'm no PED expert and don't claim to be, but I have had quite a few friends that did use. And these guys were using in all the sports, basketball, golf, football, you name the sport. When I heard that Tiger was seeing the same doctor in Canada, that Arod was using/seeing, it was even more easy to believe. The signs of roids are more obvious to catch than HGH or other PEDS. A major sign is knee problems. Big mac retired because of his knees. Our knees and joints weren't created to carry the body that roids build for them. I'm not referring to an obvious knee injury, those have been around for years. But we are seeing a lot of athletes now, in all sports, just ending up with bad knees and it is happening early, Utley for example or even Arod. Now Tiger has bad knees. I have no knowledge of Tiger ever using, but how can we assume he hasn't. I'm 42 and I'm sure guys older than me will second this. What the hell is an oblique injury. Did 5 guys a year on every team, miss 2-3 weeks every season from an injured oblique, like they are now. The injuries these guys are having now, had never even been heard of. I played sports, as did my brother. We played everything, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and even a little track, as a sprinter. When I talk to my dad and brother, we can't think of one friend or other player who ever had an oblique injury. My dad held the LA county HS record in the high jump until Dwight Stones beat it and then went on to Olympic gold. My uncle was drafted by the cards out of HS and was offered a full scholarship to usc, for baseball. He coached in LA for years at a big baseball HS and sent plenty players on to college and a few to the pros. He hasn't heard of this stuff and can't explain it. Something had changed. Some people blame the yanks and a yankee fan in this thread, responded back. The one org., I would say who has had the biggest impact is the A's. I grew up in the same city, that canseco and big mac lived in, we always knew they were dirty, but there were plenty of rumors about rickey and dave henderson, and then on too tejada, giambi, and even chavez. Plenty of others also. The year, Ricky was elected into the HOF, I don't remember the source, but it was a big name, and it/they/he suggested, we just elected out first roid user into the HOF. But the comment, didn't suggest the name of the player, just that one was in. To me it would be naive to think this is the first, but somebody must have known about this player. I assumed, they meant Rickey, who was a hero of mine growing up. In defense of the yanks, many of the guys that are talked about, came from other teams and were using long before being a yankee. Such as Arod, Sheffield, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens and more than likely Reuben sierra, just to name a few. People assumed Manny was clean, in my head I had him as a user from day one. And people use the "This guys stats have been the same his whole career, so he must be clean" line. This proves nothing. In some cases, it's easy to see the starting point, like a brady anderson. But, If a guy was using since HS, why would we see a huge change. They would just always be great. Many assume, Pujols to be dirty, because of his body and many have defended him with the mentioned proof. But how do we know he wasnt using in HS? We don't.

As I read through this, I thought I detected a pattern. Operating on the hypothesis that this manifesto might be similar to the Bible Code, I went to work.

derek jeter abuses performance enhancing druGs and is mean to PupPies. however, his tears do cure cancer.

There you have it, folks!

I think you just solved that Ginter code follow-up thingy. Nice work! Congrats!!

 

[gmsieb]

As I read through this, I thought I detected a pattern. Operating on the hypothesis that this manifesto might be similar to the Bible Code, I went to work.

derek jeter abuses performance enhancing druGs and is mean to PupPies. however, his tears do cure cancer.

You figured that out in less time than it took me to make it work. Pretty darn impressive. I added the puppies part to throw you off my trail, but you were able to see right through my attempt.

Greg

 

[gmsieb]

I apologize for the extremely wordy and abused paragraph, I was wrong for that. I promise to correct the problem. As I have learned from reading this forum and the makers of the cards we all enjoy. I will find the people responsible and make them pay for their mistake. Possibly even fire someone, just to let all my other thread writers know I mean business. This is all fun for me. I only responded to the one person, because they tried to insult me and used the wrong word in doing so. I deserved to be called out for the paragraph, but when you call someone out, make sure you don't mess up in doing so. I had just got home from work, tired as hell and looking back, I guess I just felt like chillin and typing something. Thanks for the friendly abuse. The ginter code crap was funny.
Greg

 

[TNP777]

Greg, I'm sure you took my reply as it was intended - just having a little fun with you and your post. If you took it as getting personal, my apologies - it wasn't intended as such.

 

[zach]

Unless anyone on FCB can prove him innocent or guilty, Skip has as much of a right to his opinion as we do. I'd guess, many of our heroes were/are using from the 80s'-Now. In some sports, well before that. My friend in HS, who ended up playing pro football for 5-6 years, was using back in 86. I'm sure, if HS kids were using in 86, the pros were using long before that. All we can really do is hope our favorites are clean, but there is just too much money at stake for us to be so naive, in assuming their innocence. In reply to a few things said in this thread. I don't think HGH was ever legal in the MLB, there just wasn't a rule stating it was illegal, just as there wasn't a rule saying roids were illegal. I'd guess there wasn't a rule in 1972 stating that crack was illegal to use in the MLB either. The drugs were illegal to use in our country, the MLB didn't need a ruling on it. I don't understand why people take it so personal, when one of their guys get accused. It's a game, these are humans, people we don't even know, but admire, for a skill, we wish we had. We have no clue what they have done to improve their odds. Most of these guys couldn't give 2 S^&Ts about us, yet people get bent out of shape, if someone says one bad word about their favorite player. As long as there are millions at stake, people will cheat. Many have and many still are. I'm not a yankee fan, but I have always respected Jeter. I have always assumed him to be clean, but there is as mush of a chance he is dirty as there was for melky, benito santiago, or pettite. Andy seems to be a great man, father and the rest. It's just to easy to give in, when you can secure your families future for the next 4 generations with a 4 year contract. From what I have read or heard from friends lately, the makers of these drugs are so ahead of testing, its not even fair. They are creating PEDS that leave the body quickly and leave no trace. MLB doesn't even have a test for HGH, so how do we know if all these guys aren't using that today. If you/me were 36 and things looked done and a friend/doctor offered us HGH, told us how to use it and past tests, and we could prolong our career 3 years and make another 30 million, I'm guessing many of us would give in and take it. So, why the hell would we assume these guys are all clean and get pissed off, when someone who has more inside knowledge than us, assumes they aren't?? I was a Tiger Woods fan for years, it's faded a little over the years. I always wondered about whether he was clean or not. I always suspected the reason for Duvals rise and fall, in attempt to catch Tiger, was caused by PED usage. I'm no PED expert and don't claim to be, but I have had quite a few friends that did use. And these guys were using in all the sports, basketball, golf, football, you name the sport. When I heard that Tiger was seeing the same doctor in Canada, that Arod was using/seeing, it was even more easy to believe. The signs of roids are more obvious to catch than HGH or other PEDS. A major sign is knee problems. Big mac retired because of his knees. Our knees and joints weren't created to carry the body that roids build for them. I'm not referring to an obvious knee injury, those have been around for years. But we are seeing a lot of athletes now, in all sports, just ending up with bad knees and it is happening early, Utley for example or even Arod. Now Tiger has bad knees. I have no knowledge of Tiger ever using, but how can we assume he hasn't. I'm 42 and I'm sure guys older than me will second this. What the hell is an oblique injury. Did 5 guys a year on every team, miss 2-3 weeks every season from an injured oblique, like they are now. The injuries these guys are having now, had never even been heard of. I played sports, as did my brother. We played everything, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and even a little track, as a sprinter. When I talk to my dad and brother, we can't think of one friend or other player who ever had an oblique injury. My dad held the LA county HS record in the high jump until Dwight Stones beat it and then went on to Olympic gold. My uncle was drafted by the cards out of HS and was offered a full scholarship to usc, for baseball. He coached in LA for years at a big baseball HS and sent plenty players on to college and a few to the pros. He hasn't heard of this stuff and can't explain it. Something had changed. Some people blame the yanks and a yankee fan in this thread, responded back. The one org., I would say who has had the biggest impact is the A's. I grew up in the same city, that canseco and big mac lived in, we always knew they were dirty, but there were plenty of rumors about rickey and dave henderson, and then on too tejada, giambi, and even chavez. Plenty of others also. The year, Ricky was elected into the HOF, I don't remember the source, but it was a big name, and it/they/he suggested, we just elected out first roid user into the HOF. But the comment, didn't suggest the name of the player, just that one was in. To me it would be naive to think this is the first, but somebody must have known about this player. I assumed, they meant Rickey, who was a hero of mine growing up. In defense of the yanks, many of the guys that are talked about, came from other teams and were using long before being a yankee. Such as Arod, Sheffield, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens and more than likely Reuben sierra, just to name a few. People assumed Manny was clean, in my head I had him as a user from day one. And people use the "This guys stats have been the same his whole career, so he must be clean" line. This proves nothing. In some cases, it's easy to see the starting point, like a brady anderson. But, If a guy was using since HS, why would we see a huge change. They would just always be great. Many assume, Pujols to be dirty, because of his body and many have defended him with the mentioned proof. But how do we know he wasnt using in HS? We don't.

As I read through this, I thought I detected a pattern. Operating on the hypothesis that this manifesto might be similar to the Bible Code, I went to work.

derek jeter abuses performance enhancing druGs and is mean to PupPies. however, his tears do cure cancer.

There you have it, folks!

Brilliant! This is like theDa Vinci Code for baseball message boards.

 

[gmsieb]

Your reply was great. I hadn't laughed that hard in some time. As soon as I hit "post quick reply" and saw the wall, I knew I would catch some heat. Like I said, it's all fun for me. I called my dad and had him read what your wrote, even he enjoyed it. Its been a tough day for me. At work there is an older guy at the door. Great guy, every day, one of us, in fun, takes a shot at the other. Today, as I walked out he said, "hey Greg, know why I like when you are here?" I knew it wouldn't be good, but I said, tell me Jack. He said, "when your here, I'm the second ugliest guy in the building." Even a few members laughed. I had nothing for him, but do plan on getting even tomorrow. It's been down hill ever since. When my dad read what you wrote and heard the Jack story, he told me to stay home, hide my face and shut up. Later added, he still loved me.

Thanks for the fun,

Greg

 

[markakis8]

predatorkj is that you?

Unless anyone on FCB can prove him innocent or guilty, Skip has as much of a right to his opinion as we do. I'd guess, many of our heroes were/are using from the 80s'-Now. In some sports, well before that. My friend in HS, who ended up playing pro football for 5-6 years, was using back in 86. I'm sure, if HS kids were using in 86, the pros were using long before that. All we can really do is hope our favorites are clean, but there is just too much money at stake for us to be so naive, in assuming their innocence. In reply to a few things said in this thread. I don't think HGH was ever legal in the MLB, there just wasn't a rule stating it was illegal, just as there wasn't a rule saying roids were illegal. I'd guess there wasn't a rule in 1972 stating that crack was illegal to use in the MLB either. The drugs were illegal to use in our country, the MLB didn't need a ruling on it. I don't understand why people take it so personal, when one of their guys get accused. It's a game, these are humans, people we don't even know, but admire, for a skill, we wish we had. We have no clue what they have done to improve their odds. Most of these guys couldn't give 2 S^&Ts about us, yet people get bent out of shape, if someone says one bad word about their favorite player. As long as there are millions at stake, people will cheat. Many have and many still are. I'm not a yankee fan, but I have always respected Jeter. I have always assumed him to be clean, but there is as mush of a chance he is dirty as there was for melky, benito santiago, or pettite. Andy seems to be a great man, father and the rest. It's just to easy to give in, when you can secure your families future for the next 4 generations with a 4 year contract. From what I have read or heard from friends lately, the makers of these drugs are so ahead of testing, its not even fair. They are creating PEDS that leave the body quickly and leave no trace. MLB doesn't even have a test for HGH, so how do we know if all these guys aren't using that today. If you/me were 36 and things looked done and a friend/doctor offered us HGH, told us how to use it and past tests, and we could prolong our career 3 years and make another 30 million, I'm guessing many of us would give in and take it. So, why the hell would we assume these guys are all clean and get pissed off, when someone who has more inside knowledge than us, assumes they aren't?? I was a Tiger Woods fan for years, it's faded a little over the years. I always wondered about whether he was clean or not. I always suspected the reason for Duvals rise and fall, in attempt to catch Tiger, was caused by PED usage. I'm no PED expert and don't claim to be, but I have had quite a few friends that did use. And these guys were using in all the sports, basketball, golf, football, you name the sport. When I heard that Tiger was seeing the same doctor in Canada, that Arod was using/seeing, it was even more easy to believe. The signs of roids are more obvious to catch than HGH or other PEDS. A major sign is knee problems. Big mac retired because of his knees. Our knees and joints weren't created to carry the body that roids build for them. I'm not referring to an obvious knee injury, those have been around for years. But we are seeing a lot of athletes now, in all sports, just ending up with bad knees and it is happening early, Utley for example or even Arod. Now Tiger has bad knees. I have no knowledge of Tiger ever using, but how can we assume he hasn't. I'm 42 and I'm sure guys older than me will second this. What the hell is an oblique injury. Did 5 guys a year on every team, miss 2-3 weeks every season from an injured oblique, like they are now. The injuries these guys are having now, had never even been heard of. I played sports, as did my brother. We played everything, football, soccer, baseball, basketball and even a little track, as a sprinter. When I talk to my dad and brother, we can't think of one friend or other player who ever had an oblique injury. My dad held the LA county HS record in the high jump until Dwight Stones beat it and then went on to Olympic gold. My uncle was drafted by the cards out of HS and was offered a full scholarship to usc, for baseball. He coached in LA for years at a big baseball HS and sent plenty players on to college and a few to the pros. He hasn't heard of this stuff and can't explain it. Something had changed. Some people blame the yanks and a yankee fan in this thread, responded back. The one org., I would say who has had the biggest impact is the A's. I grew up in the same city, that canseco and big mac lived in, we always knew they were dirty, but there were plenty of rumors about rickey and dave henderson, and then on too tejada, giambi, and even chavez. Plenty of others also. The year, Ricky was elected into the HOF, I don't remember the source, but it was a big name, and it/they/he suggested, we just elected out first roid user into the HOF. But the comment, didn't suggest the name of the player, just that one was in. To me it would be naive to think this is the first, but somebody must have known about this player. I assumed, they meant Rickey, who was a hero of mine growing up. In defense of the yanks, many of the guys that are talked about, came from other teams and were using long before being a yankee. Such as Arod, Sheffield, Canseco, Giambi, Clemens and more than likely Reuben sierra, just to name a few. People assumed Manny was clean, in my head I had him as a user from day one. And people use the "This guys stats have been the same his whole career, so he must be clean" line. This proves nothing. In some cases, it's easy to see the starting point, like a brady anderson. But, If a guy was using since HS, why would we see a huge change. They would just always be great. Many assume, Pujols to be dirty, because of his body and many have defended him with the mentioned proof. But how do we know he wasnt using in HS? We don't.


The bottom line is, many have used, many are still using, and many will continue to find ways to cheat
But lets remember, it's just a damn game, it's guys/gals playing sports for millions of dollars and fame.
It's to damn easy too cheat and the payoff is too big, to not at least consider it.
So why do we fans get so upset, when someone gets caught or assumed of guilt?

It is all meant to be for fun and entertainment. Save getting pissed or in a fight for something that matters.