Wow - how did this get to me?

Bob Loblaw · Feb 11, 2013

Bought a cheap $10 elite auto. Seller sent in a regular bubble mailer with a Freedom ($.46) stamp and a 20 cent stamp. Yet it made it. Did the post office lower rates that I'm unaware of?

...and still, I was charged $3 shipping. Hmm.

TBTwinsFan · Feb 11, 2013

Probably just slipped through. I'm sure it happens.

VandyDan · Feb 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
Bought a cheap $10 elite auto. Seller sent in a regular bubble mailer with a Freedom ($.46) stamp and a 20 cent stamp. Yet it made it. Did the post office lower rates that I'm unaware of?

...and still, I was charged $3 shipping. Hmm.

Ask for a partial shipping refund..like $1.75 or something. It may not be much money, but it should be yours.

Shoot, I had to neg a guy for charging $5 for shipping, the thing arriving in a document envelope with a $1.36 postage on it and no DC. Refused to partial refund (and called me a worthless mooch).

A_Pharis · Feb 11, 2013

LOL! "Worthless mooch" coming from someone who jacks up S&H to pocket some extra change.

Super Mario · Feb 11, 2013

At least it made it to you.

Exposfan · Feb 11, 2013

You agreed to $3 shipping- The card got to you in good condition. Who cares how it got there?

You people need another hobby if you are complaining about a shipping cost that you AGREED to pay when you bid on the auction or made an offer on a BIN/BO.

VandyDan · Feb 11, 2013

Exposfan said:
You agreed to $3 shipping- The card got to you in good condition. Who cares how it got there?

You people need another hobby if you are complaining about a shipping cost that you AGREED to pay when you bid on the auction or made an offer on a BIN/BO.

Well to be fair the other party "agreed to provide" $3 worth of shipping services. They did not. They AGREED to do so, but they did not.

The clown I had to neg tried this argument. I told him that yes, I agreed that $5 for shipping would be a fair price. BUT that requires him to use nearly every penny of that on shipping. But I can't agree to a price being valid while being blind to what actual services rendered will be. I didn't try to get him to refund me entirely. I tried to get him to refund the difference between the price I would pay and that he would pay on shipping, and what services I actually received.

Seriously, what are you getting at? I didn't agree to pay $5 period. I agreed that if he were to pay $5 to ship to me, I would find that amount acceptable and would reimburse him for those costs. Given the way the transaction worked, I had to pay up front. But that doesn't change the character of the quid pro quo.

Exposfan · Feb 11, 2013

VandyDan said:
Well to be fair the other party "agreed to provide" $3 worth of shipping services. They did not. They AGREED to do so, but they did not.

The clown I had to neg tried this argument. I told him that yes, I agreed that $5 for shipping would be a fair price. BUT that requires him to use nearly every penny of that on shipping. But I can't agree to a price being valid while being blind to what actual services rendered will be. I didn't try to get him to refund me entirely. I tried to get him to refund the difference between the price I would pay and that he would pay on shipping, and what services I actually received.

.

Seriously, what are you getting at? I didn't agree to pay $5 period. I agreed that if he were to pay $5 to ship to me, I would find that amount acceptable and would reimburse him for those costs. Given the way the transaction worked, I had to pay up front. But that doesn't change the character of the quid pro quo.

Vandy- The seller agreed to get you the card in a certain condition for the price you paid. Not what YOU think it should be. The seller is not required to spend it all on shipping. There are other costs associated with shipping tht are not always Post office related. You agreed to thier shipping terms when you placed your bid.

200lbhockeyplayer · Feb 11, 2013

Are you really agreeing to "$3 worth of shipping services"? So I offer free shipping, does that mean the buyer is agreeing to $0 worth of shipping services?

Nope.

What you're agreeing to is a figure to get the item from X to Y. If it arrives in proper fashion, celebrate good times come on because there's a party goin on right here. It's time to come together. It's up to you, what's your pleasure?

Bob Loblaw · Feb 11, 2013

double post

Bob Loblaw · Feb 11, 2013

Exposfan said:
You agreed to $3 shipping- The card got to you in good condition. Who cares how it got there?

You people need another hobby if you are complaining about a shipping cost that you AGREED to pay when you bid on the auction or made an offer on a BIN/BO.

I wasn't complaining about the $3. My point was that I didn't know that a bubble mailer with a card could be mailed for $.66. Please re-read the original post. Thanks!

alexs64 · Feb 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
I wasn't complaining about the $3. My point was that I didn't know that a bubble mailer with a card could be mailed for $.66. Please re-read the original post. Thanks!

You may want to rewrite the original post, because your last sentence makes it sound a lot like you are complaining about being charged $3.

VandyDan · Feb 11, 2013

Exposfan said:
Vandy- The seller agreed to get you the card in a certain condition for the price you paid. Not what YOU think it should be. The seller is not required to spend it all on shipping. There are other costs associated with shipping tht are not always Post office related. You agreed to thier shipping terms when you placed your bid.

a) perhaps you should read the TOS of ebay shipping about what costs you are/are not allowed to pass on?

b) no, you are flat wrong here. I agree to the price thinking it will be spent on shipping. When it isn't, I have a valid claim. Say you buy a card with insurance and it arrives safely, but no insurance label. The seller absolutely made you incur a risk and profited fraudulently from their claims about what services they would render.

The mere act of selling forces the seller to get the card to me--to convey it. Any S/H paid on top is to guarantee that satisfactory mail service is used to get it to me. I'm not paying S/H for the card to get to me. I'm paying it for it to get to me in a certain way. I'm paying for the peace of mind that comes from DC/Insurance/using a particular mailer, etc. In the above cases, the seller implied that $3 shipping's peace of mind would be used and it was not.

In these cases, the seller is basically assuming everything will work out okay and pocketing the savings while passing the risk on to the buyer.

Again, S/H charges are about "If I were to use this much to get the item to you, would you find that cost reasonable". NOT "Here's how much extra profit I think I can squeeze--trust me the thing will get to you".

I think we fundamentally disagree about the nature of S/H charges. You seem to think they are propositions of "how much in addition to cost are you willing to pay, regardless of what S/H related services I render". I tend to think of them as agreements in principle that must be borne out in the actual transaction.

200lbhockeyplayer · Feb 11, 2013

Bob Loblaw said:
I wasn't complaining about the $3. My point was that I didn't know that a bubble mailer with a card could be mailed for $.66. Please re-read the original post. Thanks!

"...and still, I was charged $3 shipping. Hmm."

Had that line been left out, perhaps you wouldn't have appeared to be complaining.

Regardless, the fact is that if it's less than 3/4" and not rigid, it is machinable, and can therefore be sent through first-class. Not first-class package. Some POs let bubble mailers with cards fly that way, others do not. There is always a chance 'postage due' when sending that way. Should have probably been $1.61 or whatever the rate for 3oz first-class package.

...and still, you'd be charged $3 shipping. Hmm.

Exposfan · Feb 11, 2013

VandyDan said:
a) perhaps you should read the TOS of ebay shipping about what costs you are/are not allowed to pass on?

b) no, you are flat wrong here. I agree to the price thinking it will be spent on shipping. When it isn't, I have a valid claim. Say you buy a card with insurance and it arrives safely, but no insurance label. The seller absolutely made you incur a risk and profited fraudulently from their claims about what services they would render.

The mere act of selling forces the seller to get the card to me--to convey it. Any S/H paid on top is to guarantee that satisfactory mail service is used to get it to me. I'm not paying S/H for the card to get to me. I'm paying it for it to get to me in a certain way. I'm paying for the peace of mind that comes from DC/Insurance/using a particular mailer, etc. In the above cases, the seller implied that $3 shipping's peace of mind would be used and it was not.

In these cases, the seller is basically assuming everything will work out okay and pocketing the savings while passing the risk on to the buyer.

Again, S/H charges are about "If I were to use this much to get the item to you, would you find that cost reasonable". NOT "Here's how much extra profit I think I can squeeze--trust me the thing will get to you".

I think we fundamentally disagree about the nature of S/H charges. You seem to think they are propositions of "how much in addition to cost are you willing to pay, regardless of what S/H related services I render". I tend to think of them as agreements in principle that must be borne out in the actual transaction.

You obviously need another hobby if complaining about a couple of bucks shipping that you agree to pay is that big of a deal.

alexs64 · Feb 11, 2013

200lbhockeyplayer said:
"...and still, I was charged $3 shipping. Hmm."

Had that line been left out, perhaps you wouldn't have appeared to be complaining.

Regardless, the fact is that if it's less than 3/4" and not rigid, it is machinable, and can therefore be sent through first-class. Not first-class package. Some POs let bubble mailers with cards fly that way, others do not. There is always a chance 'postage due' when sending that way. Should have probably been $1.61 or whatever the rate for 3oz first-class package.

...and still, you'd be charged $3 shipping. Hmm.

Without the extensive elaboration on what the P.O. does, you and I have the same post.

A_Pharis · Feb 11, 2013

Exposfan said:
You agreed to $3 shipping- The card got to you in good condition. Who cares how it got there?

You people need another hobby if you are complaining about a shipping cost that you AGREED to pay when you bid on the auction or made an offer on a BIN/BO.

I have to disagree with this.
It's hard to say you "agree to $3 shipping" when you don't know what you're really agreeing to.
In fact, you are AGREEING to $3 worth of shipping and handling as per the guidelines of eBay's TOS (which does not include your time to ship/gas to the PO/etc). So, really, the inverse of your claim is that the seller is AGREEING to provide $3 worth of shipping. In this case, they did not.

So let's say there is a $.99 cent card that has only one copy up at the time you are looking to buy. The seller has $4.00 S&H on it and lives 3 states away.
When you get the card, it's in GREAT condition.. but it came in a PWE with a single stamp. Inside, only a penny sleeve, top loader and some tape. So, <$1 worth of shipping costs made you pay $5 for something that should have run you $2 - at most. That seller has now pocketed that extra little bit for the sake of making extra money on a $1 card.

That may not be a big deal to you, but some people that only buy cheap cards may have a valid argument over something that seems so trivial.

Ugh. I just get so tired of seeing the "You agreed to it when you bid" reasoning when it's exactly the same reason the seller needs to hold up to their end of that S&H "agreement".

Bob Loblaw · Feb 11, 2013

200lbhockeyplayer said:
"...and still, I was charged $3 shipping. Hmm."

Had that line been left out, perhaps you wouldn't have appeared to be complaining.

Regardless, the fact is that if it's less than 3/4" and not rigid, it is machinable, and can therefore be sent through first-class. Not first-class package. Some POs let bubble mailers with cards fly that way, others do not. There is always a chance 'postage due' when sending that way. Should have probably been $1.61 or whatever the rate for 3oz first-class package.

...and still, you'd be charged $3 shipping. Hmm.

If I were charged $1, and it came in a bubble envelope, I would have expected that the seller knew some trick to get it through. With all of the the changes in the post office, I thought it was conceivable that they actually lowered a rate, or eliminated a class of mail -- whereas a 3 oz package despite the size should only be $.61. I will admit that it takes balls to charge $3 for a $.64 package, but as many have posted and I agree, I knew the cost of shipping when I got into the deal, and no matter how they got it to me, I agreed to pay $3.

LEave it to you to find some alleged hidden alterior motive in a post that just isn't there. Just go ahead and "foe" me and get it over with. I've already "foe"d that Alex person and this board is much the better for it.

A_Pharis · Feb 11, 2013

Exposfan said:
Vandy- The seller agreed to get you the card in a certain condition for the price you paid. Not what YOU think it should be. The seller is not required to spend it all on shipping. There are other costs associated with shipping tht are not always Post office related. You agreed to thier shipping terms when you placed your bid.

Actually, according to eBay's TOS - yes... yes, they are. SH is to cover the actual cost of material+shipping. That's why filing for partial refunds on S&H via chargeback is nearly 100% successful.

HPC · Feb 11, 2013

A_Pharis said:
Actually, according to eBay's TOS - yes... yes, they are. SH is to cover the actual cost of material+shipping. That's why filing for partial refunds on S&H via chargeback is nearly 100% successful.

Yep.

eBay has been clear from the getgo of their new buyer protection that sellers should not be able to profit or recoup costs off s/h.

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