Wow - how did this get to me?

Exposfan said:

Not everyone sells 100's of items, thereby costs are higher.

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Therefore you would be breaking the TOS.

And I am sure when and if they do sell 100's of items they would discount it a ton. Or just make another excuse. Like they need to drive 55 miles in a space shuttle to the nearest PO. and rocket fuel isnt cheap. Because you know, printing it at home and handing to the man who comes to your house 6 days a week (soon to be 5) is just too difficult to do.

Didn't read much else except the first page, but the $3 is for shipping costs, inconvenience to ship it, and time it takes to ship it. If you're going to nickel and dime and ask for literally $1.25 back, then I would bring up that argument. You got the card in good condition, agreed to $3 shipping (which is fair, $5 is too much) so there is no problem that I see and I think this example is why eBay doesn't protect the seller enough if a buyer can ask for a $1.25 refund then leave a neg.

VandyDan said:

AH, that old canard! I must need a new hobby because I insist on getting my money's worth for services I agree to pay for!

It wasn't that big a deal to me. I noticed the difference in price, informed the seller (I even said, "no big deal, as I'm sure you ship a lot and can't keep track, etc).

I read the ToS, knew my rights and when he refused (and then ad hominem refused) I neg'd him. It was not a big deal. It was roughly 1 minute of my life.

Perhaps the seller needs a new hobby, since he made a big deal of keeping money he promised to use to pay shipping?

Look, this really isn't a big deal to me. I know I'm in in the right, but I don't exactly feel persecuted that some disagree. If you promise me/contract with me to spend $3 on shipping something to me, I want you to spend $3 on shipping it to me. You feel otherwise. Cool beans.

Also, this isn't a debate about a few dollars. It's a debate about some sellers making unjust profits. It's no different then them charging me sales tax (that I agree to!) and then just pocketing the sales tax instead of giving it to Uncle Gummint. It's about truth in advertising and honorable seller practices.

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So with you it's all about the price paid for shipping. So why don't you answer 200lb's question about free shipping? You can't have it both ways. When you buy something with free shipping, do you expect that you might not receive your item because the seller isn't obligated to spend ANYTHING on shipping it to you, or are you going to contradict yourself?

How could anyone misconstrue Jeff's original post as complaining about getting ripped off on shipping costs?

Ok, I send out about 30-40 bubble mailers with no DC as a first class ENVELOPE every week. About once every 3 months I get a customer that claims postage due from their idiotic USPS that doesn't know their own rules. I usually just end up refunding the buyer what they paid to the USPS but also explain to them how their local PO is wrong and why.

You can send a bubble mailer as an ENVELOPE first class if (like Mike said), 3/4 inches or less (basically enough to hold 1-3 cards) for 92 cents. 2 ounces is $1.12. No DC. I use stamps.com and do this for all cards under $10. The rewards outweigh the risks (deceitful buyers) by a mile and I save over $75 a month doing it this way.

Sending a bubble mailer as a first class PACKAGE with DC, 3 oz or less, costs $1.69.

I also do not charge shipping.

All that said, I have no idea how you got a bubble mailer for 66 cents postage...it should've been sent back to the seller for at least 26 cents more postage

TBTwinsFan said:

$1-$2 adds up real quick.

Buy 10 cards at $3 shipping each, sellers pay $1 per card to ship, there is $20 down the drain right there.

Not as crazy as it sounds.

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Yet if you received all ten of those cards in separate boxes and each one cost $3 to ship you would still be out that $20. You agreed to the $3 shipping and it got to you in good condition what else did you expect the seller to do throw in some free cards to jack up the weight. What if shipping was a dollar because that's what he thought it would cost but then it ended up costing $2 should he file a claim to get that extra dollar?

JoshHamilton said:

How could anyone misconstrue Jeff's original post as complaining about getting ripped off on shipping costs?

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Shipping is high on everything you buy on eBay (unless it's free) and the internet in general. It's to be expected. But like I said in my post, at least the package made it to him. Because some never do.

Am I the only one that feels dirty if the buyer overpays on shipping? I always use calculated shipping through eBay and if the buyer overpays by more than $0.50 or so (usually due to not waiting for a combined invoice) I go ahead and send the partial refund.

D-Lite said:

Am I the only one that feels dirty if the buyer overpays on shipping? I always use calculated shipping through eBay and if the buyer overpays by more than $0.50 or so (usually due to not waiting for a combined invoice) I go ahead and send the partial refund.

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I'll bet that most people who complain about high shipping never do that.

Exposfan said:

You agreed to $3 shipping- The card got to you in good condition. Who cares how it got there?

You people need another hobby if you are complaining about a shipping cost that you AGREED to pay when you bid on the auction or made an offer on a BIN/BO.

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I agree totally with the above statement. You had every opportunity to view shipping costs and agreed to them by bidding and winning. Quit whining or quit bidding.

markakis8 said:

Ok, I send out about 30-40 bubble mailers with no DC as a first class ENVELOPE every week. About once every 3 months I get a customer that claims postage due from their idiotic USPS that doesn't know their own rules. I usually just end up refunding the buyer what they paid to the USPS but also explain to them how their local PO is wrong and why.

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You run the risk of some d-bag hitting you for negative feedback, though.

You can send a bubble mailer as an ENVELOPE first class if (like Mike said), 3/4 inches or less (basically enough to hold 1-3 cards) for 92 cents. 2 ounces is $1.12. No DC. I use stamps.com and do this for all cards under $10. The rewards outweigh the risks (deceitful buyers) by a mile and I save over $75 a month doing it this way.

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Wait -- what? You send out 30-40 envelopes. Let's say, for argument's sake, you send out 40. And each is one ounce. Paypal DC shipping is $1.69. As per your statement above, its $.92. That's a 77 cent difference. If you send out 40, that's a hair over $30. How do you save $75?

Sending a bubble mailer as a first class PACKAGE with DC, 3 oz or less, costs $1.69.

I also do not charge shipping.

All that said, I have no idea how you got a bubble mailer for 66 cents postage...it should've been sent back to the seller for at least 26 cents more postage

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I got nothing. That was the original thought of this post.

Bob Loblaw said:

You run the risk of some d-bag hitting you for negative feedback, though.

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One negative feedback every 3 months isn't going to ruin me. But I haven't gotten a negative feedback for it yet in almost 2 years b/c I actually refund the guy the postage due. It's not worth arguing over $1 once every 3 months.

Bob Loblaw said:

Wait -- what? You send out 30-40 envelopes. Let's say, for argument's sake, you send out 40. And each is one ounce. Paypal DC shipping is $1.69. As per your statement above, its $.92. That's a 77 cent difference. If you send out 40, that's a hair over $30. How do you save $75?

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I send out 30-40 a week. You have to times that $30 by 4.

Exposfan said:

You agreed to $3 shipping- The card got to you in good condition. Who cares how it got there?

You people need another hobby if you are complaining about a shipping cost that you AGREED to pay when you bid on the auction or made an offer on a BIN/BO.

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Are you serious? I'm sure people who pay 3 dollars for shipping don't expect their card to arrive in a pwe which can potentially damage the card.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M920 using Freedom Card Board mobile app

Again, for those so interested in my thoughts on how S/H costs work, vis a vis "what i agree to".

When I buy a thing on eBay (or elsewhere), I see the S/H and I interpret it as the seller saying the following to me "Hey Dan, if I were to spend this much to get it to you, would you reimburse me for that amount?". When I buy, I say "sure, buddy! sounds good". I do NOT view it as "this is how much I charge to get things to you, regardless of actual cost I incur. Just be happy it gets to you". So, if there is free shipping, I ask myself "would I find it satisfactory if he spent $0 to get something to me safely? heck yes!". However, I also do not buy low cost items with free shipping since I am afraid of the PWE hassle.

I recently bought something that cost $10 to ship (an old newspaper). It arrived and lo and behold the guy spent $9.70something. I left glowing feedback. I have also bought a football helmet where the guy charged $5 to ship. After winning, I messaged him and said "you know, I sell cards pretty often, and $5 can barely ship 2 cards. How do you plan to get this to me safely for $5?" His response? "It was an estimate and I didn't want to make it to high to scare off buyers". I told him to ship it securely regardless of cost, up to $15, and then send me a paypal invoice for the remainder. He did and it got here safely. I paid him the difference.

The guy I neg'd charged $5 on the auction (it was for a jersey, that sounded in the ballpark of reasonable). It arrives to me in a document mailer with chunks missing with no DC and no protection beyond the envelope, and a $1.63 label. I ask him why he charged me $5 for $2.15 worth of services rendered. He told me that "sometimes when I ship things it is more than $5, sometimes it is less than $5, I just charge this flat rate regardless of actual cost, some customers get a savings, you didn't it all evens out to me. I tell him it is not part of my purchase to subsidize his higher cost shipping expenditures, and that when I ship something and it turns out to cost less than S/H, I refund the purchaser, since S/H empirically cost less than expected. The seller should not get the benefit of his own avoidable mistake. Didn't bring up feedback, neutral or otherwise. Just trying to suss out his thought process, in case he was correct. He proceeds to go from what was a rather normal exchange about shipping costs to a highly inflammatory and ad hominem attack, and tell me that the extra money is for ebay prohibited costs (standing in line, gas to get there, etc...things that if you go to Ebay, you cannot charge for). In all honesty, I would have simply dinged his DSRs for overcharging me on shipping by 100%. Once he kinda went off on me, he deserved the neg. Potential buyers should know that he disregards explicit ebay policy and is a loose cannon.

This makes me a schmuck? Okay, I can live with that. I have zero problem paying 3-4X the cost of the item in shipping for it to get here, provided that that money is used to get it to me. I do not pay S/H just to get the item here safely. I pay it to receive the guarantee that comes with the amount of money I pay. It is all about honesty and straightforwardness. If ebay permitted charging S/H for things like waiting in line, gas to get there, taking a day off from work, etc, I'd pay it without question. I follow the rules and make sure I spent every penny I charge on S/H for actually shipping the thing. I expect others to do the same. Sue me. Last I'll say on the matter.

My $.02 and then Ill zip it, as this is my theory......

I ship all single cards that I sell on eBay for "free", meaning I dont directly charge my buyers for shipping costs.
What I do is indirectly charge my buyers by adding in what I consider my shipping costs into my starting price, typically $2, that about covers actual shipping costs and materials.

So, if in the past I would typically start "X" card off at $.99 + $2.00 for shipping and let it ride for 7 days, I will now start "X" card off at $2.99 and offer FREE shipping, now my costs are built into the ending price. See when eBay made the switch that FVF are taken out of Auctions End Price AND Shipping, it only made sense to build it right into the starting bid.

Now do I risk the chance of losing customers because their mindset is "Im not going to pay Seller XYZ $2.99 for "X" card when I can go to Seller ABC and get it for $.99 + $2-3 shipping", so be it, nothing I can do.
But if they do decide to buy from me at that $2.99 price and buy multiple cards at that starting bid, I can ship them all in one package and not have to discount my shipping because it is already "Free", whereas if I did charge for shipping, I would have to offer up a combined discount.

So my theory is and it has worked a few times:
sell 5 items at $2.99, you get $14.95
sell 5 items at $.99 and add in $2 for combined shipping, you get $6.95
There I have made an extra $8 that I might not have gotten starting at $.99, or maybe I am losing out on people bidding higher than $2.99, I will never know. But what I do know is that I am happy with that extra $8 and know that as a power seller selling with free shipping, I too am benefiting from eBay discounting me and knowing that buyers cant ding me for "high shipping prices" when I ship for free.

Its a "give and take" and a "take and give" world on eBay.

Just curious if anyone has figured out a break even price of shipping w/ all factors... $1.69 w/ dc, FVF on shipping, avg price for one bubble mailer, lil tape, lil ink... etc. I didn't mention gas because I just walk mine out to mailbox. I'm sure some drive to p.o too. I'm too lazy and/or stoned to do that math. Thanks in advance... Adam

Musial Collector said:

My $.02 and then Ill zip it, as this is my theory......

I ship all single cards that I sell on eBay for "free", meaning I dont directly charge my buyers for shipping costs.
What I do is indirectly charge my buyers by adding in what I consider my shipping costs into my starting price, typically $2, that about covers actual shipping costs and materials.

So, if in the past I would typically start "X" card off at $.99 + $2.00 for shipping and let it ride for 7 days, I will now start "X" card off at $2.99 and offer FREE shipping, now my costs are built into the ending price. See when eBay made the switch that FVF are taken out of Auctions End Price AND Shipping, it only made sense to build it right into the starting bid.

Now do I risk the chance of losing customers because their mindset is "Im not going to pay Seller XYZ $2.99 for "X" card when I can go to Seller ABC and get it for $.99 + $2-3 shipping", so be it, nothing I can do.
But if they do decide to buy from me at that $2.99 price and buy multiple cards at that starting bid, I can ship them all in one package and not have to discount my shipping because it is already "Free", whereas if I did charge for shipping, I would have to offer up a combined discount.

So my theory is and it has worked a few times:
sell 5 items at $2.99, you get $14.95
sell 5 items at $.99 and add in $2 for combined shipping, you get $6.95
There I have made an extra $8 that I might not have gotten starting at $.99, or maybe I am losing out on people bidding higher than $2.99, I will never know. But what I do know is that I am happy with that extra $8 and know that as a power seller selling with free shipping, I too am benefiting from eBay discounting me and knowing that buyers cant ding me for "high shipping prices" when I ship for free.

Its a "give and take" and a "take and give" world on eBay.

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well said. agree on all levels.

bigbov said:

Just curious if anyone has figured out a break even price of shipping w/ all factors... $1.69 w/ dc, FVF on shipping, avg price for one bubble mailer, lil tape, lil ink... etc. I didn't mention gas because I just walk mine out to mailbox. I'm sure some drive to p.o too. I'm too lazy and/or stoned to do that math. Thanks in advance... Adam

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lol, it's 2:30 on a Monday. Geez.

Exposfan said:

You obviously need another hobby if complaining about a couple of bucks shipping that you agree to pay is that big of a deal.

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Amazing the petty shiatt that gets discussed on here. Just sayin.

Musial Collector said:

My $.02 and then Ill zip it, as this is my theory......

I ship all single cards that I sell on eBay for "free", meaning I dont directly charge my buyers for shipping costs.
What I do is indirectly charge my buyers by adding in what I consider my shipping costs into my starting price, typically $2, that about covers actual shipping costs and materials.

So, if in the past I would typically start "X" card off at $.99 + $2.00 for shipping and let it ride for 7 days, I will now start "X" card off at $2.99 and offer FREE shipping, now my costs are built into the ending price. See when eBay made the switch that FVF are taken out of Auctions End Price AND Shipping, it only made sense to build it right into the starting bid.

Now do I risk the chance of losing customers because their mindset is "Im not going to pay Seller XYZ $2.99 for "X" card when I can go to Seller ABC and get it for $.99 + $2-3 shipping", so be it, nothing I can do.
But if they do decide to buy from me at that $2.99 price and buy multiple cards at that starting bid, I can ship them all in one package and not have to discount my shipping because it is already "Free", whereas if I did charge for shipping, I would have to offer up a combined discount.

So my theory is and it has worked a few times:
sell 5 items at $2.99, you get $14.95
sell 5 items at $.99 and add in $2 for combined shipping, you get $6.95
There I have made an extra $8 that I might not have gotten starting at $.99, or maybe I am losing out on people bidding higher than $2.99, I will never know. But what I do know is that I am happy with that extra $8 and know that as a power seller selling with free shipping, I too am benefiting from eBay discounting me and knowing that buyers cant ding me for "high shipping prices" when I ship for free.

Its a "give and take" and a "take and give" world on eBay.

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This is absolutely a major benefit of free shipping that I love as a seller.

Actually more money, forced 5 DSRs...plus, you get more control in the process.