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Awesome PED Essay From a Past MLB Vet

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predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Lisu nailed it. It's not just that the guy is massive- he definitely had help from genetics, supplements, and a strenuous gym workout plan. He didn't use PEDs, and that essay further solidifies that claim.

There's a difference between wanting to achieve your fitness goals by putting in the 4 extra hours a day required or the 4 extra seconds to shoot yourself up with PEDs.


Uh, that 4 extra seconds plus the 4 extra hours in the gym right? Steroids help build muscle depending on what you take but you still have to earn it in the gym. It just makes recovery time shorter and allows for more gain during workouts. You make it sound like its just a magic pill and then you go sit down and watch yourself grow.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
No, using just winstrol wouldnt get you the best results, no one uses just one thing. But a majority of the players who have been caught are more cut, they are not bodybuilder type guys.

Like A-Rod for instance. I'd never have thought he used because I always thought he was way too lean.

I think after everything I've heard and been able to find out, there are many different reasons people take them but the biggest advantage is recovery time. You get some guys who just want lean muscle and some who want to be the incredible hulk. People like Bonds have severe joint issues(knees) because they overload the supporting tissue structures to the point where they cannot support the joint.

One of the many reasons I've always wondered about Bagwell and his bum arm.
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
Like A-Rod for instance. I'd never have thought he used because I always thought he was way too lean.

People like Bonds have severe joint issues(knees) because they overload the supporting tissue structures to the point where they cannot support the joint.
That's why I think Griffey used PEDs.
He was lean like Arod. And his body fell apart too early, like Arod, Bonds, McGwire, Juan Gonzalez, Canseco and most other longtime PED users.

Why do so many of the big stars of the last twenty years always have broken bodies in their 30s?

Most of the past's huge stars played 20 years and never broke down until age and slower bat speed did them in.
Guys like Aaron, Mays, Musial, Brett, Brooks and Frank Robinson, Rose, Reggie, Carew, Schmidt, Seaver, Carlton, Berra, Cobb, Wagner... most major stars of the last century, didn't have their hip, shoulder, elbow and other muscle ligaments torn to shreds.

Pitchers threw 300 innings and 15 complete games a year without getting hurt. (Except for the rare instance like Koufax, who had a freak arthritis condition)

And hitters like Arod and Griffey and McGwire limp into retirement with the aching, broken bodies of 70 year olds.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Like A-Rod for instance. I'd never have thought he used because I always thought he was way too lean.

I think after everything I've heard and been able to find out, there are many different reasons people take them but the biggest advantage is recovery time. You get some guys who just want lean muscle and some who want to be the incredible hulk. People like Bonds have severe joint issues(knees) because they overload the supporting tissue structures to the point where they cannot support the joint.

One of the many reasons I've always wondered about Bagwell and his bum arm.
All you had to do with ARod was lokk at his legs, the guy has tree trunks for legs. That is the biggest difference between these guys and the older generations of players, next time you eatch a game take a look at the size of there thighs and glutes. There is a huge difference.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Lisu nailed it. It's not just that the guy is massive- he definitely had help from genetics, supplements, and a strenuous gym workout plan. He didn't use PEDs, and that essay further solidifies that claim.

There's a difference between wanting to achieve your fitness goals by putting in the 4 extra hours a day required or the 4 extra seconds to shoot yourself up with PEDs.
Most steroid users are gym rats. Most steroid users are incredibly disciplined and follow strict diets. You have to put the time in with steroids just as much as you have to put the time in without them.
 

vwnut13

Active member
Apr 19, 2009
8,004
0
Vermont
Most steroid users are gym rats. Most steroid users are incredibly disciplined and follow strict diets. You have to put the time in with steroids just as much as you have to put the time in without them.


Nope, wrong. You shoot yourself up and 4 seconds later you look like Popeye.


Everybody knows that. duh.
 

shayscards79

New member
Aug 17, 2010
3,166
0
Chicago
I don't believe that either. He was always well built and a gym rat.

It kind of sucks that guys that have always been ripped automatically get labeled as juicer in baseball, some guys just live in the gym. Look at Ron Gant.

It's even spilling over to football, people accusing Peterson of using PEDs too. Mob mentality for you, guilty till proven innocent.
 

shayscards79

New member
Aug 17, 2010
3,166
0
Chicago
Why do so many of the big stars of the last twenty years always have broken bodies in their 30s?
It could be in the way that athletes train in general these days. I mean, the older guys that you mention may not have squatted and dead lifted, etc either. Like another poster said, look at the size of guy's legs now. Part of it could be genetics too.

I just think it's a little crazy to assume that because some guys are all ripped out it's because they juice. My boxing trainer in his hey day could Olympic squat 350 lbs and never touched PEDs a day in his life.
 

Austin

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
5,706
41
Dallas, Texas
It could be in the way that athletes train in general these days. I mean, the older guys that you mention may not have squatted and dead lifted, etc either.
Then if all of these superstars' bodies aren't being destroyed by steroids making muscles too big for the ligaments, and it's just from regular over-training, why do they do it?
How do team trainers get away with ruining players' bodies?

Players like Mays, Mantle, Ruth, Maris, Greenberg, Foxx, etc. were hitting 50+ homers a year without massive training programs and PEDs.

Why do players feel they need to workout like animals to get the same stats that former players got?
(besides money, obviously)

It just seems like trainers who end up damaging players' bodies by over-doing their workouts should be held somewhat accountable, if PEDs weren't involved.

Ted Williams and Stan Musial didn't need to look like bodybuilders.
Babe Ruth was a fat slob.
Maybe today's players need to spend more time in the batting cages and less in the weight room.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Then if all of these superstars' bodies aren't being destroyed by steroids making muscles too big for the ligaments, and it's just from regular over-training, why do they do it?
How do team trainers get away with ruining players' bodies?

Players like Mays, Mantle, Ruth, Maris, Greenberg, Foxx, etc. were hitting 50+ homers a year without massive training programs and PEDs.

Why do players feel they need to workout like animals to get the same stats that former players got?
(besides money, obviously)

It just seems like trainers who end up damaging players' bodies by over-doing their workouts should be held somewhat accountable, if PEDs weren't involved.

Ted Williams and Stan Musial didn't need to look like bodybuilders.
Babe Ruth was a fat slob.
Maybe today's players need to spend more time in the batting cages and less in the weight room.
Babe Ruth trained year round, including heavy lifting. Mantle and Maris did Isometric exercises, which was popular at the time and heavily promoted by Charles Atlas, one of the greatest strong men of all time. Hank Aaron lifted heavy the latter part of his career. Willie Mays was ripped, Jimmy Foxx was jacked, he was jacked bc he worked on a farm in the off season. Hank Greenberg was a mountain of a man and trained regularly at the YMCA and Ted Williams di a lot of running and outdoor activities.

"I think we country boys, the fellows raised on farms, lead a more healthful life and are stronger than city fellows. That’s only my opinion but I’m glad I worked so hard on the farm. When I was 12 I could cut corn twelve hours a day, help in the wheat fields, plow and swing 200 pound bags of phosphate off a platform into a wagon. I worked right on when a lot of the hired help quit because it was too hard.

We had games on the farm to test strength and grip. A fellow had to plant both feet in a half-barrel measure of wheat and then pick up two bushels of wheat or corn and balance them on his shoulders. There was no chance to cheat. You had the strength or you didn’t. Another trick was to lift a 200 pound keg of nails without letting the keg touch your body. That was to show the strength in hands and shoulders. I could do that easily."

-Jimmie Foxx
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Bobby Hull bailed hay in the off season and he swore by it.
 

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predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
That's why I think Griffey used PEDs.
He was lean like Arod. And his body fell apart too early, like Arod, Bonds, McGwire, Juan Gonzalez, Canseco and most other longtime PED users.

Why do so many of the big stars of the last twenty years always have broken bodies in their 30s?

Most of the past's huge stars played 20 years and never broke down until age and slower bat speed did them in.
Guys like Aaron, Mays, Musial, Brett, Brooks and Frank Robinson, Rose, Reggie, Carew, Schmidt, Seaver, Carlton, Berra, Cobb, Wagner... most major stars of the last century, didn't have their hip, shoulder, elbow and other muscle ligaments torn to shreds.

Pitchers threw 300 innings and 15 complete games a year without getting hurt. (Except for the rare instance like Koufax, who had a freak arthritis condition)

And hitters like Arod and Griffey and McGwire limp into retirement with the aching, broken bodies of 70 year olds.



Well, one of the issues is steroids can help you recover faster. Trust me, if you go lift every day, alternating, you will do minor tearing to muscle fibers(supposedly). Plus your body fatigues(in essence it starts running low on the chemicals it needs to keep your body and muscles going and you can increase lactic acid levels within your body(if I remember correctly). Plus you will develop DOMS(delayed onset muscle soreness). That's why most workout regimens at the very least have you alternating what you work out or do specific regions for very short periods. Plus your joints and ligaments have to be able to handle the stress of repeated effort. If Canseco is to be believed(I don't do steroids so I cannot vouch for this), your body is able to recover faster using the hormones you inject/ingest/take dermally to replenish what you need to work out more and longer. So instead of doing one workout a day for *** amount of hours, you can fit in two or three of the same workout into that same day. The major issue with that is first and foremost, you are screwing with the chemistry of your body. What effects that may have will take years of research to really be able to pinpoint. But your joints cannot handle two things. They cannot handle the increased workouts. You're body is now doing two to three times the amount of work it normally does. That's a hell of a load. And secondly, it cannot handle the increased amount of weight/reps you will be able to work up to. Everyone has a different body and different thresholds. But your body can only take so much. If your muscle fibers start to hypertrophy too much and increase in number as well, you can literally grow muscles that are too damn big for your body to handle. Your normal body chemistry will usually shut you down before this. The human body is a very awesome thing in that it has a crapload of checks and balances and tends to act in self preservation. Sure you can still screw things up. Pain is usually a good indicator of "Hey Dummy, stop!". But with steroids, you start tinkering with this self preservation. If your biceps or your quads can suddenly start doing twice or three times the workouts they used to could, or twice the weight they used to be able to lift, the joints are the same as they were before. So without an increase in size and stability from them, you now put a stress on them they cannot handle.


I'd even say no users in today's modern sports world are working out more and it may very well be detrimental to them. It has certainly evolved from what others have done.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Most steroid users are gym rats. Most steroid users are incredibly disciplined and follow strict diets. You have to put the time in with steroids just as much as you have to put the time in without them.

Actually I'd say you put more effort into it when you are using PEDS.
 

predatorkj

Active member
Aug 7, 2008
11,871
2
Babe Ruth trained year round, including heavy lifting. Mantle and Maris did Isometric exercises, which was popular at the time and heavily promoted by Charles Atlas, one of the greatest strong men of all time. Hank Aaron lifted heavy the latter part of his career. Willie Mays was ripped, Jimmy Foxx was jacked, he was jacked bc he worked on a farm in the off season. Hank Greenberg was a mountain of a man and trained regularly at the YMCA and Ted Williams di a lot of running and outdoor activities.

"I think we country boys, the fellows raised on farms, lead a more healthful life and are stronger than city fellows. That’s only my opinion but I’m glad I worked so hard on the farm. When I was 12 I could cut corn twelve hours a day, help in the wheat fields, plow and swing 200 pound bags of phosphate off a platform into a wagon. I worked right on when a lot of the hired help quit because it was too hard.

We had games on the farm to test strength and grip. A fellow had to plant both feet in a half-barrel measure of wheat and then pick up two bushels of wheat or corn and balance them on his shoulders. There was no chance to cheat. You had the strength or you didn’t. Another trick was to lift a 200 pound keg of nails without letting the keg touch your body. That was to show the strength in hands and shoulders. I could do that easily."

-Jimmie Foxx


Isometrics will only do so much for you. ISO's aren't a bad supplemental exercise though depending on which muscle groups are being worked. Weights are far better at achieving that though. But these "farm boys" are certainly on the right track. You get conditioning as well as building muscle from actual manual labor. A ball player now goes home and has to consciously work out due to the fact that if he doesn't, sitting on his ass in his condo watching reruns of FRIENDS won't make him any better physically. Back then, these guys "worked out" because they had real jobs in the off season. Why go to a gym when you have a job you get paid to do and has the same effect for you? Plus, you don't get the overload. You lift what is necessary. Not "Hey...let's push it to 400 pounds today...". But you do get the overuse eventually.
 

elmalo

New member
Feb 19, 2010
5,216
0
Isometrics will only do so much for you. ISO's aren't a bad supplemental exercise though depending on which muscle groups are being worked. Weights are far better at achieving that though. But these "farm boys" are certainly on the right track. You get conditioning as well as building muscle from actual manual labor. A ball player now goes home and has to consciously work out due to the fact that if he doesn't, sitting on his ass in his condo watching reruns of FRIENDS won't make him any better physically. Back then, these guys "worked out" because they had real jobs in the off season. Why go to a gym when you have a job you get paid to do and has the same effect for you? Plus, you don't get the overload. You lift what is necessary. Not "Hey...let's push it to 400 pounds today...". But you do get the overuse eventually.
You can get pretty ripped with isometrics, you dont pack on pounds, but you definitely can put on lean, hard muscle.
 

Topnotchsy

Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
Aug 7, 2008
9,446
168
It's important to remember that while the stars may not have exercised the way modern players do, the competition was not doing much either and that's what matters.
 
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