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Thread: HOF results are in

  1. #31
    Senior Member Gwynn545's Avatar
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    Jacque Jones was 1st in the league at Range Factor/9 Innings in 2002, so you guys are idiots for not seeing his HOF worthiness! Sucks for him. I'm writing a letter to the HOF...

  2. #32
    Senior Member BBCgalaxee's Avatar
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    Jacques Jones and Benitez got votes!!!!!#-!!!!!!!!

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Besides Thomas having better overall numbers, two MVPs and being considered one of the top 3 players of the '90s, Thomas was never suspected or accused of using PEDs, unlike Bagwell.
    Simple really.
    Nail on the head. Thomas was overall just a better player than Bagwell.

    Little surprised Biggio got so close but I would guess he will get in next year. I'm not sure anyone else on that ballot besides Biggio and Piazza will ever get in. They elected the three correct players this time though.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member markakis8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by predatorkj View Post
    I'm not heart broken Bagwell didn't get in but I just don't understand how he went down in percentage. If everyone can vote for 10 people, there would have been the ability for every voter to vote for the top ten guys. I don't get it. I hate the first or second ballot stuff. Either the guy is or isn't a HOF'er.

    But hey, maybe his card prices will go back down a little. That'd be nice.
    It's not really a reflection on Bagwell, so don't take it so hard. Bagwell will definitely get in, he's just gonna have to wait until these next few ballots clear out. I see Bagwell having to wait another 5 years.

  5. #35
    Member patrick182's Avatar
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxe0213 View Post
    Nail on the head. Thomas was overall just a better player than Bagwell.

    Little surprised Biggio got so close but I would guess he will get in next year. I'm not sure anyone else on that ballot besides Biggio and Piazza will ever get in. They elected the three correct players this time though.
    Thomas was a better hitter. But overall? No way. Bagwell was an excellent fielder and one of the best best runners ever to play 1B and almost certainly the best for anyone at the position with anywhere near the power he had.

    Doesn't overall mean all phases of the game? Thomas was a zero in two of the three. Now, he was an absolute beast at the plate and definitely more valuable there than Bagwell and offense carries more weight than baserunning and defense. But put them all together and they are neck and neck. WAR lists Bagwell as the 4th best 1B to play since 1900. Thomas is right with him which again shows just how dominant he was offensively that he was able to get that much value just from his bat.

    But the PED witch hunt is at its most egregious with regards to Bagwell hence the voting difference. Even if you believe PED users shouldn't get in, there isn't the slightest shred of evidence that Bagwell used beyond some folks think he looked like a user. Whatever that means. Of all the guys getting shafted by the BWAAA, Bags is the guy I feel most sorry for.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftysouthpaw View Post
    Thomas was a better hitter. But overall? No way. Bagwell was an excellent fielder and one of the best best runners ever to play 1B and almost certainly the best for anyone at the position with anywhere near the power he had.

    Doesn't overall mean all phases of the game? Thomas was a zero in two of the three. Now, he was an absolute beast at the plate and definitely more valuable there than Bagwell and offense carries more weight than baserunning and defense. But put them all together and they are neck and neck. WAR lists Bagwell as the 4th best 1B to play since 1900. Thomas is right with him which again shows just how dominant he was offensively that he was able to get that much value just from his bat.

    But the PED witch hunt is at its most egregious with regards to Bagwell hence the voting difference. Even if you believe PED users shouldn't get in, there isn't the slightest shred of evidence that Bagwell used beyond some folks think he looked like a user. Whatever that means. Of all the guys getting shafted by the BWAAA, Bags is the guy I feel most sorry for.
    Offense carries much more weight in the HOF voting than Defense or Running IMO and I think many voters look at it that way as well.

    Thomas Offense > Bags Offense, Defense, Base Running Combined.

    Thomas was outspoken against PED's and never thought to have used. Bagwell has had some issues with accused of Steroids.

    I think its pretty obvious why he didn't get in and he didn't get "shafted" either.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracecollector View Post
    Why would they lift it? Since the initial class of 5, the most elected in in any year has been 4 once, 3 a couple times. Absolutely no reason to lift it, the current system works fine. Voting for 10 is plenty - I doubt very many ballots list that many.
    Because it is a completely arbitrary limit and the BWAAA has created a mess of a backlog. As several have already stated, a large chunk of the electorate is using all 10 votes and several have said they would vote for as many as 15-20 if they could (and in my opinion, those guys tend to be the more enlightened voters in the pool - but that is strictly my opinion and I respect any disagreement). Why should guys have to squeeze their ballots if they truly believe that many deserve their vote?

    The Hall has already said they are going to discuss this later this year and I'll be surprised if they don't lift it or at least raise it.

  9. #39
    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Besides Thomas having better overall numbers, two MVPs and being considered one of the top 3 players of the '90s, Thomas was never suspected or accused of using PEDs, unlike Bagwell.
    Simple really.
    Bagwell is just as clean as Thomas. That is, nobody knows whether either one of then did it or not.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markakis8 View Post
    It's not really a reflection on Bagwell, so don't take it so hard. Bagwell will definitely get in, he's just gonna have to wait until these next few ballots clear out. I see Bagwell having to wait another 5 years.
    No, you should never vote for a guy and then take the vote back. Not with ten open spots. That's what makes me mad, player be damned. It makes a persons vote mean a bit less. I can't take people like that seriously.
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  11. #41
    Senior Member ThoseBackPages's Avatar
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    Congrats to:

    1987 Donruss
    1988 Score
    1990 Leaf

    for making it into the PSA HOF Registry!
    What you collect is awesome, what i collect sucks.

  12. #42
    Senior Member D-Lite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MansGame View Post
    It's funny when you talk about guys who were in insert sets back in the '90s versus others and who got into the HOF, etc.
    If being on inserts or other "hits" is an indication of Hallworthiness then you can pencil in Brad Hand and Angel Pagan in the not too distant future.

  13. #43
    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxe0213 View Post
    Offense carries much more weight in the HOF voting than Defense or Running IMO and I think many voters look at it that way as well.

    Thomas Offense > Bags Offense, Defense, Base Running Combined.

    Thomas was outspoken against PED's and never thought to have used. Bagwell has had some issues with accused of Steroids.

    I think its pretty obvious why he didn't get in and he didn't get "shafted" either.
    I'm not disputing Bagwell isn't a HOF'er. IMO, he may not be. But the only time I've ever even heard his name mentioned is by Gumble and he pulled it out of thin air. Bagwell has never been implicated. Do I think he used? Hell yeah. But since you know he has, or has been implicated, please be kind enough to post a link. Otherwise, you're argument is dead in the water.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by predatorkj View Post
    I'm not disputing Bagwell isn't a HOF'er. IMO, he may not be. But the only time I've ever even heard his name mentioned is by Gumble and he pulled it out of thin air. Bagwell has never been implicated. Do I think he used? Hell yeah. But since you know he has, or has been implicated, please be kind enough to post a link. Otherwise, you're argument is dead in the water.
    I'm not saying he's been "implicated" or anything of that nature. What I'm saying is he has been talked about among other steroid users and people have said that he is under the suspicion of using. Whether or not he did, I honestly have no idea. He was connected to steroids at least somewhat (there are tons of articles out there if you do a google search) which hurts his candidacy. I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't but that along with the fact that he wasn't a HOF player doesn't get him into the hall IMO. If he would've been able to get to 500 HR's I think he's in for sure. He falls a little short in my book.

    "you're argument is dead in the water." So your the argument police and I'm not allowed to have an opinion that is different than your own about your PC player getting into the hall? Okay...
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  15. #45
    Senior Member BBCgalaxee's Avatar
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    Does this make u feel old? There's now a hof rc from the 90s.

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