What are your thoughts about Raffles / Razzes

bmp1971 · Apr 3, 2014

Fandruw25 said:
I don't care for them. To me, it's not much different than the grab bags at card shows or the lottery. I know a few people like this stuff, but I can't understand putting money up and then not getting anything. Box breaks, yes. Raffles, no.

Let's say you want to gamble on hitting a nice Baez chrome auto from 2011 BDP.

According to your post, you are willing to break a box to get one but not enter a RAZZ.

"Loose" boxes are $135/ea now (blowoutcards.com), and you have apparently a 1:34 (34 prospect autos in the product) chance of hitting a Baez. So, you go see what's available in the RAZZ rooms...

And you see two options:

1. $20 spot for a 1:10 chance to hit a base chrome 2011 BDP auto BGS 9.5/10

2. $55 spot for a 1:10 chance to hit this:

Which makes more gambling sense-- $135 box with a 2.9% chance of hitting a Baez base auto, or $55 a spot with a 10% chance of hitting a rare blue ref auto /150 BGS 9.5/10?

CONCLUSION: I'm all for the RAZZ, esp. if considering buying a box to chase just a particular card.

Bootstraps9 · Apr 3, 2014

bmp1971 said:
Let's say you want to gamble on hitting a nice Baez chrome auto from 2011 BDP.

According to your post, you are willing to break a box to get one but not enter a RAZZ.

"Loose" boxes are $135/ea now (blowoutcards.com), and you have apparently a 1:34 (34 prospect autos in the product) chance of hitting a Baez. So, you go see what's available in the RAZZ rooms...

And you see two options:

1. $20 spot for a 1:10 chance to hit a base chrome 2011 BDP auto BGS 9.5/10
View attachment 33423

2. $55 spot for a 1:10 chance to hit this:

View attachment 33422

Which makes more gambling sense-- $135 box with a 2.9% chance of hitting a Baez base auto, or $55 a spot with a 10% chance of hitting a rare blue ref auto /150 BGS 9.5/10?

CONCLUSION: I'm all for the RAZZ, esp. if considering buying a box to chase just a particular card.

Very good post. One additional consideration though is when buying a box you definitely get an auto so your odds should be slightly adjusted for all top prospects, as well as color refractors that could be hit. But your point is right on

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

All The Hype · Apr 3, 2014

bmp1971 said:
Let's say you want to gamble on hitting a nice Baez chrome auto from 2011 BDP.

According to your post, you are willing to break a box to get one but not enter a RAZZ.

"Loose" boxes are $135/ea now (blowoutcards.com), and you have apparently a 1:34 (34 prospect autos in the product) chance of hitting a Baez. So, you go see what's available in the RAZZ rooms...

And you see two options:

1. $20 spot for a 1:10 chance to hit a base chrome 2011 BDP auto BGS 9.5/10
View attachment 33423

2. $55 spot for a 1:10 chance to hit this:

View attachment 33422

Which makes more gambling sense-- $135 box with a 2.9% chance of hitting a Baez base auto, or $55 a spot with a 10% chance of hitting a rare blue ref auto /150 BGS 9.5/10?

CONCLUSION: I'm all for the RAZZ, esp. if considering buying a box to chase just a particular card.

I like this post. This is why it makes sense to me. And on the other side, if you're the seller, there are way more people willing and able to spend $55-$65 on a chance at a Baez blue than there are people willing and able to drop $550-$650 to buy it outright.

Buyers get a chance at nice things for less money even though they take on some risk. Sellers move more cards for what they need out of them. Everything is voluntary, so everyone participating is doing so because they chose to do so. Seems like a win-win.

All this being said, I don't know the first thing about the legality of raffles. No reason to break rules when there are other ways to move cards.

cgilmo · Apr 7, 2014

breakers.tv just canned them

All In Cards · Apr 7, 2014

cgilmo said:
breakers.tv just canned them

wow, my guess is over 1/2 of the breakers there are done now

jbhofmann · Apr 7, 2014

cgilmo said:
breakers.tv just canned them

Your shot to host.

rico08 · Apr 7, 2014

They are "illegal" because there is no "NPN" or "no purchase necessary" option. It has nothing to do with whether or not you get something from the raffle.

Illegal lotteries occur when there is 1) a prize, 2) consideration ($ per spot), and 3) chance.

All 3 of these are present in this case so without a NPN they're no good.

Bootstraps9 · Apr 7, 2014

rico08 said:
They are "illegal" because there is no "NPN" or "no purchase necessary" option. It has nothing to do with whether or not you get something from the raffle.

Illegal lotteries occur when there is 1) a prize, 2) consideration ($ per spot), and 3) chance.

All 3 of these are present in this case so without a NPN they're no good.

What makes state lotteries legal then?

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

UMich92 · Apr 7, 2014

Bootstraps9 said:
What makes state lotteries legal then?

Most likely there is state legislation enacted for their lotteries.

cgilmo · Apr 7, 2014

jbhofmann said:
Your shot to host.

I cannot, they are illegal in Georgia

nyc3 · Apr 7, 2014

I dont like them. I especially don't like them when the card sells for say $20-$25 but the are 10 spots at 4$. Not only this but they appear cheap and penny pinching as I can't remember the last time I seen a "razz" for a card where the seller gets market value.

Bootstraps9 · Apr 7, 2014

UMich92 said:
Most likely there is state legislation enacted for their lotteries.

So state's can institute lotteries but people can't. Members of congress can practice insider trading but people can't. I'm sure there are more, but man, isn't America great. Psh

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

UMich92 · Apr 7, 2014

Bootstraps9 said:
So state's can institute lotteries but people can't. Members of congress can practice insider trading but people can't. I'm sure there are more, but man, isn't America great. Psh

Well the state legislature's make the laws. IIRC many state's passed legislation where their lotteries would help fund schools. But there are so many games played with the books it's hard to tell if schools actually received more revenue.

notjomommasclint · Apr 7, 2014

If I want a quilt or a cherry pie I get in raffle..

If I want a card I buy it..

I'd rather eat my own fecal matter than pay to get nothing.

Boylen33 · Apr 7, 2014

notjomommasclint said:
If I want a quilt or a cherry pie I get in raffle..

If I want a card I buy it..

I'd rather eat my own fecal matter than pay to get nothing.

So if you really want a cherry pie, you won't buy it? Rather, you will enter a raffle and take the chance of not getting the cherry pie? That's sound logic.

IUjapander · Apr 7, 2014

Razzes remind me of 3 card monte. Both illegal and nothing set up to protect you from fraud. But both entertaining as hell watching the dealer/breaker pimp the game

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/11/nyregion/3-card-monte-it-s-just-a-shell-game-officials-warn.html

rico08 · Apr 8, 2014

Bootstraps9 said:
What makes state lotteries legal then?

State law.

You can't create a legal contest without having a way for people to participate without consideration/payment. No purchase necessary is necessary.

tonsofcommons · Apr 8, 2014

notjomommasclint said:
If I want a quilt or a cherry pie I get in raffle..

If I want a card I buy it..

I'd rather eat my own fecal matter than pay to get nothing.

But you are married, right???

tonsofcommons · Apr 8, 2014

Boylen33 said:
So if you really want a cherry pie, you won't buy it? Rather, you will enter a raffle and take the chance of not getting the cherry pie? That's sound logic.

I think he was referencing when local non-profit organizations will hold raffles for a handmade quilt to raise money for their organization.

notjomommasclint · Apr 9, 2014

Boylen33 said:
So if you really want a cherry pie, you won't buy it? Rather, you will enter a raffle and take the chance of not getting the cherry pie? That's sound logic.

No I was implying raffles are for elderly women who are killing time till bridge or bingo by baking cherry pies or making quilts. You know that crotchety old lady that just bakes so she can raise $30 for her church. That's what raffles are for. It's not so drama and angst riddled adults can swap the same card in the same room for 6 months.

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What are your thoughts about Raffles / Razzes

What do you think about Raffles / Razzes

I don't know what they are

I don't really care about them

I use em and think they are fine

They are the best thing in sports cards

They are illegal and immoral

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