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Thread: Jose Fernandez Headed to the DL

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    Member jmc280zx's Avatar
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    Kids are getting call up way to quickly now a days... What happened to the days were it would take 3-5 years of minor league development before players got a call... I personally think this has a big impact on all the injures that have plagued both hitters and pitchers..

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    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc280zx View Post
    Kids are getting call up way to quickly now a days... What happened to the days were it would take 3-5 years of minor league development before players got a call... I personally think this has a big impact on all the injures that have plagued both hitters and pitchers..
    That's not true. Players used to get called up much younger. Kids just out of high school often made their MLB debut with little to no minor league experience.
    Today's players rarely get called up as a teenager or 20 year old, unless they're a super-prospect like Bryce Harper or Mike Trout.
    Jose Fernandez was 21 for most of his rookie season.

    Joe Nuxhall was only 15, Carl Scheib was 16 and Bob Feller at 17. That would never happen today.

    Ty Cobb was 18. Christy Mathewson was 19. Walter Johnson was 19, Babe Ruth (pitching) was 19. Mickey Mantle was 19. Willie Mays was 20. Ted Williams was 20. Stan Musial was 20. Nolan Ryan was 19. Dwight Gooden was 19. Greg Maddux was 20. Steve Carlton was 20. Two-time Cy Young award winner Bret Saberhagen was 20. Rickey Henderson was 20.

    Those are just some of the famous ones I can think of. Tons of players every year through the '80s used to get called up who were younger than Fernandez. And pitchers weren't breaking down like they are now.
    Last edited by Austin; 05-13-2014 at 05:15 AM.
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    Member jmc280zx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    That's not true. Players used to get called up much younger. Kids just out of high school often made their MLB debut with little to no minor league experience.
    Today's players rarely get called up as a teenager or 20 year old, unless they're a super-prospect like Bryce Harper or Mike Trout.
    Jose Fernandez was 21 for most of his rookie season.

    Joe Nuxhall was only 15, Carl Scheib was 16 and Bob Feller at 17. That would never happen today.


    Ty Cobb was 18. Christy Mathewson was 19. Walter Johnson was 19, Babe Ruth (pitching) was 19. Mickey Mantle was 19. Willie Mays was 20. Ted Williams was 20. Stan Musial was 20. Nolan Ryan was 19. Dwight Gooden was 19. Greg Maddux was 20. Steve Carlton was 20. Two-time Cy Young award winner Bret Saberhagen was 20. Rickey Henderson was 20.

    Those are just some of the famous ones I can think of. Tons of players every year through the '80s used to get called up who were younger than Fernandez. And pitchers weren't breaking down like they are now.

    And most of those pitchers didnt not start 28 games their rookie year (only a year and 1/2 after being drafted/signed) they spent a couple years in the minors then were sept call ups and pitched in very few games and just a few more the following year (if they werent sent back down to the minors)...

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    Senior Member Big Mac McGwire's Avatar
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    Once again, Don't invest in Pitchers. Buy Low and always sell FAST.

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    No good, for fantasy, for MLB or for the hobby. I guess collector's of his now will know my plight.

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    [MENTION=1888]JoshHamilton[/MENTION] has been quiet since this news broke. I sure hope he's still with us.
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    I think Gammons may have a point here. Maybe it's a better strategy to draft an offensive player and use him to trade for pitching later. There's definately a correlation with high-school arms and elbow injuries.

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    Sounds to me like the Marlins need to ship Giancarlo Stanton to St. Louis for some pitching depth. Shelby Miller, Trevor Rosenthal, Allen Craig or Matt Adams as well as others.

    Get it done. Right [MENTION=1888]JoshHamilton[/MENTION] ?





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    Shelby Miller. lol He's having a terrible season. No one want THAT "production".

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc280zx View Post
    And most of those pitchers didnt not start 28 games their rookie year (only a year and 1/2 after being drafted/signed) they spent a couple years in the minors then were sept call ups and pitched in very few games and just a few more the following year (if they werent sent back down to the minors)...
    Simply not true. Just from the guys Austin listed:

    Scheib threw 116 innings at age 20 and 199 at age 21
    Feller threw 62 at age 17, 149 at age 18, 277 at age 19, and 296 at age 20
    Mathewson threw 336 at age 20
    Walter Johnson threw 110 at age 19 and 256 at age 20
    Ryan threw 134 at age 21
    Gooden thre 218 at age 19 and 276 at age 20
    Maddux threw 156 at age 21
    Carlton threw 25 at age 20 and 52 at age 21
    Saberhagen threw 158 at age 20 and 235 at age 21

    Compared to the 172 innings that Fernandez threw in his age 20 season, everyone on that list except Carlton had at least a comparable work load. And there are dozens and dozens of other examples throughout history.

    When guys are as good as Fernandez - and he has arguably been the best pitcher in the game the last year plus - teams plug them in at a very young age. And well they should. In order to maximize their investment, they need to get these guys at the big league level as quickly as possible. That is not to say you don't be smart about it but if you can have a guy like Fernandez for 150 dominating innings at the major league level or 150 innings in AA, the choice is pretty clear. Even with the service time concerns, you just don't know how much time you have before a guy gets hurt.

    Young promotions are nothing new and therefore it is highly unlikely they have anything to do with the rash of torn elbow ligaments. The two obvious things that have changed the past 20 years or so is more guys are throwing in the mid-90's than ever before and kids are playing extenseive year round travel ball. There is still no way to prove those are the explanations either but we need to look at what is different to ever have a chance. Or it could just be there is nothing to do to prevent injuries beyond not pitching.

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    I don't think this has anything to do with innings and everything to do with mechanics. Guys who pitch certain ways are more apt to damage their arms.

    Guys who have never had arm issues and make it 4-5 years without any are usually pretty safe bets to never need any work done. I'm changing my buying habits on young pitchers. I din't lose very much on these recent TJ guys, but I don't like losing anything and I won't be losing any more, I'll tell you that. I should have put every penny I spent on Strasburg and Fernandez into known commodities like Hernandez and Kershaw. Verlander, Lester, Weaver, Hudson, Buehrle, here I come. lol

  12. #27
    Member jmc280zx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftysouthpaw View Post
    Simply not true. Just from the guys Austin listed:

    Scheib threw 116 innings at age 20 and 199 at age 21
    Feller threw 62 at age 17, 149 at age 18, 277 at age 19, and 296 at age 20
    Mathewson threw 336 at age 20
    Walter Johnson threw 110 at age 19 and 256 at age 20
    Ryan threw 134 at age 21
    Gooden thre 218 at age 19 and 276 at age 20
    Maddux threw 156 at age 21
    Carlton threw 25 at age 20 and 52 at age 21
    Saberhagen threw 158 at age 20 and 235 at age 21

    Compared to the 172 innings that Fernandez threw in his age 20 season, everyone on that list except Carlton had at least a comparable work load. And there are dozens and dozens of other examples throughout history.

    When guys are as good as Fernandez - and he has arguably been the best pitcher in the game the last year plus - teams plug them in at a very young age. And well they should. In order to maximize their investment, they need to get these guys at the big league level as quickly as possible. That is not to say you don't be smart about it but if you can have a guy like Fernandez for 150 dominating innings at the major league level or 150 innings in AA, the choice is pretty clear. Even with the service time concerns, you just don't know how much time you have before a guy gets hurt.

    Young promotions are nothing new and therefore it is highly unlikely they have anything to do with the rash of torn elbow ligaments. The two obvious things that have changed the past 20 years or so is more guys are throwing in the mid-90's than ever before and kids are playing extenseive year round travel ball. There is still no way to prove those are the explanations either but we need to look at what is different to ever have a chance. Or it could just be there is nothing to do to prevent injuries beyond not pitching.
    Maybe you need to reread what I said...

    Ryan drafted 65 started 1 game in 66 didnt pitch again till 69 when he only started 18 game
    Maddux drafted 84 started 5 games in 86
    Carlton drafted 63 started 2 games in 65, started 9 games in 66
    Saberhagen drafted 82 started 18 games 84
    Scheib may have been called up at 16 but never started more then 24 games his entire career and his 1st 4 years pitched in a total of 21 games non starting

    Fernandez drafted 2011 started 28 games in 13

  13. #28
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    Sorry guys, it's my fault. I broke my never buy a Pitcher rule last week on some "J-fers"...
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    I think the cause is kids playing year round and travel ball from a very early age. Most start now at 9 or 10 years old. Too much stress at too young of an age for far too many years. What has changed more than anything in baseball the past 30 years? Travel teams and year round pitching instruction. There are only so many bullets in the gun.

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    Senior Member joey12508's Avatar
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    All these kids coming up and breaking down is a shame. Theres got to be something that can be done to protect them while there still developing as teens.


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