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Thread: Unusual play in the Rockies/Giants game last night

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    Unusual play in the Rockies/Giants game last night

    I went to the Rockies game last night. It was great fun with beautiful weather and Arenado's walk-off double.

    I always score the game when I go, and I believe that if you pay attention you will always see something that you've never seen before. That happened last night.

    Recap: Bottom of the 3rd inning, there is a player on 1st with one out. The pitcher, Franklin Morales, comes up and naturally bunts. Not a great bunt, right back to the pitcher, but enough to get the job done. Bumgarner fields it, thinks about going to second base, but turns and fires a perfect throw to first. The second baseman is covering the bag, but the first baseman Morse cuts off the throw. He may have thought the bag wasn't covered, or he may not havew thought at all and just caught the ball reactively. In any case, Morales was safe at first and the baserunner moved to 2nd.

    The play can be seen here after a short commercial

    https://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=3...query=franklin

    Now, I was adamant at the time that this could NOT be ruled a hit, (I was ready to put E3 on my scorecard), but it was indeed ruled so and seems to have stood up as such. My thinking was that a bunt hit directly at the pitcher cannot be a hit. It may be a FC or an E, but a hit it ain't. However, I guess if the 'hit' caused the infiled to react in such a way as to allow the bunter to reach, it's a hit? Also, lapses in judgement (as Morse seemed to have here) are not usually classified as errors.

    In short, this still feels like an E3 to me, but I'm ready to accept it as a hit this morning after calm (sober) deliberation.

    Anyone have thoughts on this? I would love to hear them. It is unimportant to the outcome of the game, and may be boring minutiae to many, but this kind of thing is a big reason why I love to go to the ballpark (and keep score).

    I also love beer and walkoff hometeam wins, but lots of people who aren't baseball nerds love those too.
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    Senior Member gracecollector's Avatar
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    Odd play. It seems like Bumgarner tosses it a little too softly, and Morse mistakes it as a throw to him - like it didn't have enough on it to make it to the bag.

    In my mind it seems like an error, but I guess there are legal loopholes.

    Thanks for sharing - I too love the "you'll probably see something you've never seen before" aspect of every game of baseball.

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    Senior Member ThoseBackPages's Avatar
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    The OS has a heck of a lot of power when it comes to call making
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    How is it an E3 when it was fielded cleanly? Fielder fields the ball, and doesn't throw it to a base. No error there. Bad play? Clearly. But it was just a stupid play, and it was scored correctly.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Bombjack View Post
    I went to the Rockies game last night. It was great fun with beautiful weather and Arenado's walk-off double.

    I always score the game when I go, and I believe that if you pay attention you will always see something that you've never seen before.
    This is so true. My daughter loves to keep score so we always get a scorecard when we go to the game.

    As for the play, I score all the 5th/6th grade games I coach so I am pretty generous with doling out hits, but this was not a hit. He was sacrificing himself to advance the runner and would have been out with perfect fielding. I don't think it was a fielder's choice either which leaves an error. The batter should not be penalized, so I would score it a SAC with an E-3.
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    That is quite an unusual play. You're right to question whether it should be a hit or not, but the choice isn't between H and E, it's between FC-SAC and H. You can't bang Morse with an error on this because, as you note, his play involved a mental error, which is not classified as an error (physical). Just like inadvertently throwing the ball in the stands thinking there are three outs when there are actually two is a mental error and not a physical misplay of a ball. But you could call it a fielder's choice. Think of it like a pitcher (or any fielder) who cuts off a throw from the outfield that clearly has the runner beat at home. You don't give him an error there.

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    Senior Member ThoseBackPages's Avatar
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    i think it should be a FC, since he clearly was not bunting for a hit
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    It's a SAC/FC. No error on the play, other than Morse's mental miscue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages View Post
    i think it should be a FC, since he clearly was not bunting for a hit
    You can get a hit even when you're clearly not bunting for a hit. Think of it as a bunt that is pushed perfectly past the pitcher and the third baseman that no one can field. But what this comes down to is Morse making a mental error, and you can score it a hit because of it. Imagine if Morse had continued charging and the 2B had not covered 1B. Bumgarner looks at 2nd, decides to throw to first, but can't - because no one is there. So he eats the ball. In that case it's a hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd44 View Post
    You can get a hit even when you're clearly not bunting for a hit. Think of it as a bunt that is pushed perfectly past the pitcher and the third baseman that no one can field. But what this comes down to is Morse making a mental error, and you can score it a hit because of it. Imagine if Morse had continued charging and the 2B had not covered 1B. Bumgarner looks at 2nd, decides to throw to first, but can't - because no one is there. So he eats the ball. In that case it's a hit.
    im well aware
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    My point is, his intent is irrelevant in this case. The only time intent comes into play on a bunt is when the official scorer has the latitude to not award a sacrifice when a batter is clearly bunting for a hit, is thrown out, and ends up advancing a runner. It's rarely used, though.

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    Senior Member MaineMule's Avatar
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    Unreal Wayne, we had a similar scenario from my son's high school game on Tue.

    My son up to bat with runners on 1st & 2nd, one out. He makes a nice bunt up the 1st base line, 1st baseman fields ball and my son beats 2nd baseman to the 1st base bag. I am the official score keeper for home games, this was a road game and was covered by the local paper (which had responsibility for posting box score in paper. I would post score to paper if a home game without press coverage).

    I immediately thought SAC/E4 (for being slow to cover) but then changed my scoring to single after discussion with others since there was no mishandling of the ball.

    In the box score in the paper the reporter ruled play E4 and did not give my son credit for a SAC. It either had to be a single, SAC/E4 or a SAC/FC but NOT a straight E4.

    So, in your scenario I do not think there was an error so it has to be SAC/FC (for first baseman intercepting throw due to lapse of judgement as you say- ie. his choice to intercept throw).

    I love baseball scenarios like this!!

    Actually in yesterday's game our starting pitcher had a perfect game broken up with one out in 7th inning (high school games are 7 innings long in Maine). It was crushing but he still finished with a 1 hitter (and also hit the next batter).


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    Thanks for the discussion everyone. I have to agree with Scott's (and others') scoring decision of SAC/FC. I am comfortable with the idea that cutting the throw off was indeed the fielder's choice. I was a bit blinded by the fact that I didn't think it should be a hit (raising Morales' BA) that I forgot that it should not negatively affect his BA as a successful sacrifice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd44 View Post
    Imagine if Morse had continued charging and the 2B had not covered 1B. Bumgarner looks at 2nd, decides to throw to first, but can't - because no one is there. So he eats the ball. In that case it's a hit.
    This was the exact thought exercise I went through at the game, and you're right that it would probably be ruled a hit. I feel that the SAC/FC would be a better choice in actuality, as the fielder made a choice not to cover, but it would most likely be ruled a hit. That's what happened here.

    Again, thanks everyone for indulging my scoring nerd-dom. I'm glad I have a place to discuss these things.
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