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Thread: If the topps company were to get sold.

  1. #31
    Senior Member RStadlerASU22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgilmo View Post
    Heres the thing, I don't know that they would have to pay a dime extra. Panini presents 2016 Topps Chrome Football
    Possibly depending on the language and limits in the contracts. I'm sure Panini would want , say Panini Flawless Baseball w logos as well as Topps branded products. So if they were limited in the contract by amount of sets , then I could see a reup charge. Unless they completely scale back the brands


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    Senior Member fordman's Avatar
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    IF Panini did indeed buy Topps, I think Topps should remain baseball only because of the Topps heritage with baseball. Panini then picks up where they shine best with football, hockey & basketball.

    Then Panini can have Donruss as a premier, higher end baseball product. Would Donruss National Treasures sound good? I think so. Remove the Panini name from any and all baseball product, although we all would know who owned it.

    One can dream a little, eh?

    Fordman

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    In honor of the REAL sharks on the occasion of Shark Week:

    Entering the Shark Tank is Michael Eisner, trying to sell the sharks his business.

    Michael: Good evening sharks. My partners and I are here looking for a $450 million investment for 100% of the business.

    (describing Topps here)

    Kevin: I may be "Mr. Wonderful", but your company is far from wonderful. I"m out.

    Mark: It's a great thing to be on the league side of licensing deals than on your side, getting raked over the coals to have licensing. I"m out.

    Lori: This is not the crap and trash that sells on QVC. I'm out.

    Damon: $200 million in debt. Your company should be rolling in dough printing little pieces of paper. I"m out.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by IUjapander View Post
    I found it interesting that when Topps was sold in 2007 it had 0 debt (one of the reasons it was so attractive to a group of flippers). So in seven years the groups racked up $200+ million in debt. On what? They haven't hired anyone, no expansion has happened, and it most definitely hasn't gone into any type of research or product development.
    The debt is from the deal that Eisner et al put together to buy topps. They didn't just write a check for $400 million to buy out the holders of topps stock. They went to a bank (or ins company or investment bank) and said we would like to borrow $200 million against the assets of topps. We'll use that + some of our money to pay off the shareholders. After the deal we own toops, topps owe $200 million to others.

    So they invest $200 million of their money and borrow the $200 million. They hope that the company makes enough money to pay the interest and have some earnings left over. Then they grow the company so it produces more earnings and is more valuable. Later they hope to sell the company for more (much more than $400 mill) - if they can get $600 mill, they pay the loan off and their $200 million is now $400 million. And it is capital gains, so while we plug away and pay 25 0r 28% taxes they pay 15% on the $200 mill.

    the problem, while the market has gone up and many corporations are worth more, I don't think topps is worth much more than they paid, so they won;t make a huge amount of money.
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    Junior Member bobthewondercat77's Avatar
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    The main takeaway I saw here from the article is that the trading card business (outside of the digital space) is considered problematic and investors would not buy it.

    Thus it seems likely to me that a sale of Topps at this point would be another set of people reevaluating whether they want to stay in the physical trading card sector which is declining and low-margin, or focus their energies in the digital space where profits can scale up exponentially.

    Sounds dangerous to me, and the introduction of new lines of card products was not at all implied as far as I can tell...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthewondercat77 View Post
    The main takeaway I saw here from the article is that the trading card business (outside of the digital space) is considered problematic and investors would not buy it.
    If Panini is patient, they may even be able to get a MLBP license for a lot less money. Instead of writing a $400m+ check to acquire topps, let topps bung up their business that they don't have the resources to pay the MLBP license fees and the MLBP will strip it from them for non-payment and likely give it to Panini for $20-25m or whatever amount per year it is for the MLBP license... definitely a lot less than hundreds of millions of dollars to get a MLBP license in their portfolio.

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    I don't see why Topps would sell now. By working smarter and cutting some stuff, they can easily use that exclusive deal to grow the business without spending much to develop new stuff...
    Don't forget to use the FCB Link when buying on eBay!

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    Administrator James52411's Avatar
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    Panini would have to be complete, utter idiots to purchase Topps and not make base Topps in each of their three sports and Bowman/Chrome. The average person, when they think of sports trading cards, thinks of Topps. It would be like Pepsi buying Coca Cola and not selling Coke products.

  9. #39
    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James52411 View Post
    Panini would have to be complete, utter idiots to purchase Topps and not make base Topps in each of their three sports and Bowman/Chrome. The average person, when they think of sports trading cards, thinks of Topps. It would be like Pepsi buying Coca Cola and not selling Coke products.
    DING!

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    Does UD still have enough Dollars/equity/assets sitting around to make another run at buying Topps?

    If I remember correctly, didn't they make a better Offer at the last Topps sale? Since they've gotten new leadership, I think most Collectors have enjoyed their work.

    And paging BG [MENTION=1948]Leaf[/MENTION] to see if he wants to chime in...
    Don't forget to use the FCB Link when buying on eBay!

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    Senior Member BBCgalaxee's Avatar
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    I'm probably not fully understanding all the legalities, but if panini buys them and can use the topps name across the sports, that....would.....be ...awesome!

    Topps chrome football would continue to be made, chrome, finest basketball would return.

    Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

  12. #42
    Administrator cgilmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBCgalaxee View Post
    I'm probably not fully understanding all the legalities, but if panini buys them and can use the topps name across the sports, that....would.....be ...awesome!

    Topps chrome football would continue to be made, chrome, finest basketball would return.

    Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

    that is a best case scenario

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    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheetskout View Post
    How can you be sure? I would think that Panini would have to go public to raise that type of capital. We're talking in the billions in cash I would think.
    Panini is an international company. I'm sure they have the cash and credit facility to get a deal done fairly easily...
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthewondercat77 View Post
    Seems unlikely this will work out well for us collectors. Our segment of the market is worth less than the "BUNT" app... that kinda says it all right there.

    Why do you guys think that Panini buying Topps would be a good thing? What would they do differently?
    They make nicer products that collectors like. Imagine if Panini had a license now? More than 3/4 of the people on here wouldn't bash them to death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tribefan26 View Post
    the problem, while the market has gone up and many corporations are worth more, I don't think topps is worth much more than they paid, so they won;t make a huge amount of money.
    As Kenny Rogers would say "you gotta know when to fold 'em" A small gain is better than a small loss.

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