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Thread: Why do high volume ebay sellers think we believe their lies about shilling their own autctions

  1. #76
    Member Dilferules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arod812 View Post
    What about all your auctions with the ridiculous values in the titles you try to put on as book values that are usually 2-4x what the item is really worth? Where do these values come from?
    I seem to remember at one time their auctions stated that this was something like an "investment potential" value and not a book value, but I'm currently bidding on a card (where an amazingly inflated dollar figure is put in the title and the first bidder has 79% bidding activity with BigBoyd over the last 3 months, just stating facts and you can draw your own conclusions) and that language is not in the description.

    That being said, to be fair I've bought several cards from BigBoyd over the years and never had any issues once the auction ended.

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    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Bigboyd can set any price he wants. As long as he's not shilling, it's no one else's business what he charges for cards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilferules View Post
    I'm currently bidding on a card (where an amazingly inflated dollar figure is put in the title and the first bidder has 79% bidding activity with BigBoyd over the last 3 months, just stating facts and you can draw your own conclusions)
    LOL. Funny how there's a number of accounts out there like this. Must have a number of dedicated customers...

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    If you take nothing else away from this thread, it's to put Probstein on the "good" list and Bigboyd on the "naughty" list. My primary beef with this thread was that people are unfairly categorizing Probstein as one of the unethical sellers/consigners and, given mine and many others experiences as both buyers and sellers, I have yet to hear any definitive criticism (with examples!) of him doing anything wrong.

    I bought a re-sealed box of 05 UD Reflections Baseball from Boyd and it was nightmare getting it fixed. Instead of taking accountability, he blamed a dropshipper that he used, made me pay the expense of sending back the box that contained base only (NO hits at all which lead me to realize that the packs had been resealed along with the box itself), and then slammed me on the old BMB boards. Aside from that experience, my biggest beef is the deceptive pricing he puts in all of his listings (as someone mentioned above, putting '$60' on a low-end card to try and drive bidding).

    That's all I got.
    Need the following 99 Fleer Sports Illustrated Greats of the Game Autographs to complete my set:
    Baseball - Reggie Jackson (HOF Inscription & Mr. October Inscription)
    Football - Terry Bradshaw, Franco Harris, Joe Namath, Bart Starr
    Basketball - Always looking for Isiah Thomas Auto's (in an Indiana University uniform ONLY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by arod812 View Post
    What about all your auctions with the ridiculous values in the titles you try to put on as book values that are usually 2-4x what the item is really worth? Where do these values come from?
    As stated many times, the price listed is a target investment price (yes it is a sales tactic which I have stated many times). Anyway, it is stated in almost every description and in our FAQ.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dilferules View Post
    the first bidder has 79% bidding activity with BigBoyd over the last 3 months, just stating facts and you can draw your own conclusions).
    If you want to provide the item, I'll get you bidder info. There are multiple (10-20) guys that buy stuff from us every week as we list thousands of items per week. Again, any questions/concerns don't hesitate to email or call directly.

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    Senior Member jbhofmann's Avatar
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    This topic stems from everyone thinking they're CSI detectives.

    On that "other" board, 100% of the members believe this is a fake Jeter and blame Probstein for selling.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm not an expert whatsoever but it looks consistent with early Jeter sigs.

    In my opinion this shows that very few people in this hobby know what the hell they're talking about, myself included.


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    Member Dilferules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboydsportscards3 View Post
    As stated many times, the price listed is a target investment price (yes it is a sales tactic which I have stated many times). Anyway, it is stated in almost every description and in our FAQ.





    If you want to provide the item, I'll get you bidder info. There are multiple (10-20) guys that buy stuff from us every week as we list thousands of items per week. Again, any questions/concerns don't hesitate to email or call directly.
    The "target investment price" thing is seen as a misleading and sleazy sales tactic by a large number of collectors. I'm sure you know that, and you have decided that you'd rather have the few extra bucks it gains you from naive collectors. So you can defend yourself all you want but you can't have it both ways...if you're using a sales tactic that's considered sleazy, don't be upset if people think you're sleazy and are more likely to believe that you shill.

    The item in question I'm bidding on is 291233156041. One of those old Playoff show-issued /5 Barry Zito cards that in no way will ever be worth anything close to $80, considering I've bought many of his pack-inserted 1/1's for far less than that. Somebody just making the minimum bid sure doesn't seem like a shill, but when it seems as though every single one of your items has bids from people that have 30, 40, 50, 70% bidding activity with you, what do you expect people to think? But once again, people can draw their own conclusions, I drew mine long ago but continue to bid on your auctions once in a while because I know what to expect and like I said I've never had any issue with the cards I receive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilferules View Post
    The "target investment price" thing is seen as a misleading and sleazy sales tactic by a large number of collectors. I'm sure you know that, and you have decided that you'd rather have the few extra bucks it gains you from naive collectors. So you can defend yourself all you want but you can't have it both ways...if you're using a sales tactic that's considered sleazy, don't be upset if people think you're sleazy and are more likely to believe that you shill.

    The item in question I'm bidding on is 291233156041. One of those old Playoff show-issued /5 Barry Zito cards that in no way will ever be worth anything close to $80, considering I've bought many of his pack-inserted 1/1's for far less than that. Somebody just making the minimum bid sure doesn't seem like a shill, but when it seems as though every single one of your items has bids from people that have 30, 40, 50, 70% bidding activity with you, what do you expect people to think? But once again, people can draw their own conclusions, I drew mine long ago but continue to bid on your auctions once in a while because I know what to expect and like I said I've never had any issue with the cards I receive.

    There are sales tactics everyone uses in business. Walmart, Costco, gas stations, car salesman, etc etc... Anyway, as for the item the bidder in question he is from California and has had 53 orders with us in the last 12 months, 503 total items won for a total of $1143.24. As you can see, there avg win is around $2 an item so they bid on a lot of items low... If you'd like the user ID, please contact me directly and I will provide the info. Any other questions, let me know.

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    Looking at that Jeter theres one thing that stands out. GAI. I've owned 4 or 5 Gai cards and tried to crossover the few I had after they went out of business the first time. Some were in Gai holders some I cracked. PSA said all of them were trimmed. None crossed over and all of them weren't sent in in GAI holders. Thats not good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboydsportscards3 View Post
    There are sales tactics everyone uses in business. Walmart, Costco, gas stations, car salesman, etc etc... Anyway, as for the item the bidder in question he is from California and has had 53 orders with us in the last 12 months, 503 total items won for a total of $1143.24. As you can see, there avg win is around $2 an item so they bid on a lot of items low... If you'd like the user ID, please contact me directly and I will provide the info. Any other questions, let me know.

    I am calling bs on these shenanigans. I have never in my life seen Wal-Mart use this sleazy "investment potential" price on any of their items. 90 out of 100 true card enthusiasts will agree that this inflated book value price is sleazy and its sole purpose is to DECEIVE potential buyers. Even if you are 100% innocent of the blatant shilling that goes on in many of your auctions, THIS tactic makes you a total scumbag in my book!

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    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Anthony View Post
    I am calling bs on these shenanigans. I have never in my life seen Wal-Mart use this sleazy "investment potential" price on any of their items. 90 out of 100 true card enthusiasts will agree that this inflated book value price is sleazy and its sole purpose is to DECEIVE potential buyers. Even if you are 100% innocent of the blatant shilling that goes on in many of your auctions, THIS tactic makes you a total scumbag in my book!
    Its interesting, it seems no matter what the guy says, you're going to call him names at the end. Oh yeah, stop calling him names.

    Listing book value is an accepted practice and some people use it for every transaction. Is it smart? No. Is it dishonest? No.

    If you are making purchases of any kind and of any type, do your research.
    "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan0417 View Post
    Its interesting, it seems no matter what the guy says, you're going to call him names at the end. Oh yeah, stop calling him names.

    Listing book value is an accepted practice and some people use it for every transaction. Is it smart? No. Is it dishonest? No.

    If you are making purchases of any kind and of any type, do your research.

    The key word here is "book value". The prices that he states in his auction titles are NOT book values. They are "investment potential values".

  13. #88
    Member Dilferules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan0417 View Post
    Listing book value is an accepted practice and some people use it for every transaction. Is it smart? No. Is it dishonest? No.
    He doesn't list book value, he lists something he calls "target investment value" which is an inflated number he pulls out of his butt. Naive collectors or those not paying enough attention see the dollar value placed in the title of the auction and assume it's a book value, as it looks like you did. He will sometimes bury an explanation that it's not a book value but an "target investment value" in the item description, sometimes not. Here it is:

    DISCLAIMER THE PRICES LISTED ARE TARGET INVESTMENT PRICES NOT PRICES FROM ANY GUIDE DUE TO THE EXTREMELY VOLATILE EBAY MARKET CONDITIONS

    And it's NOT similar to any sales tactic used by businesses like Wal Mart and Target. The only somewhat similar thing I can think of is when a manufacturer puts a ridiculously inflated MSRP on something that never is intended to sell for that much, as I've seen with watches and jewelry. Some examples of this:
    MIKE TROUT $40+ MINT ANGELS ROOKIE XFRACTOR REFRACTOR RC SP 2012 TOPPS CHROME
    BV is $15, actually sells for $4-7...also it's not a RC and take a look at the guy who bid $7.77


    MIKE TROUT /2012 $40+ MINT ANGELS ROOKIE GOLD RC SP 2012 #446 TOPPS BORDER "GEM"
    BV is $10, actually sells for $1-7...also, once again, 2012 Mike Trout cards aren't RCs by any hobby definition


    HANK AARON $20+ BRAVES HOME RUN LEGENDS REFRACTOR SP TOPPS CHROME PRIME NINE 9
    BV is $4, actually sells for about a buck, there are 9 currently available on COMC for under a dollar


    MIKE TROUT /199 $80+ MINT GOLD REFRACTOR SP 2013 #200 TOPPS ARCHIVES RAINBOW GEM
    BV is $20, actually sells for about $20 except for one BigBoyd sold for $40 when he said it was worth $80, and you can go look that one up yourself to take a look at the bid history


    BARRY ZITO 2004 DONRUSS ORANGE COUNTY COLLECTION EMBOSSED ATHLETICS SP #4/5 $80
    LOL


    And more presented without research, just for the laughs:
    MIKE TROUT $50+ MINT ANGELS ROOKIE PURPLE REFRACTOR RC SP 2012 TOPPS CHROME "GEM


    VLADIMIR GUERRERO 2005 TOPPS UPDATE GOLD /2005 AS $12


    MIKE TROUT $25+ MINT ANGELS 2012 ROY ROOKIE MINI RC SP 2013 CARD #338 TOPPS "GEM (it's a frickin 2013 base mini card)


    MIKE TROUT $40+ MINT ANGEL ROOKIE GOLD SPARKLE REFRACTOR RC SP 2012 TOPPS AS GEM (it's just a Topps Update Gold Sparkle parallel)


    TERRMEL SLEDGE 2004 DONRUSS ORANGE EMBOSSED RC #1/5 $50


    JEFF CLEMENT 2005 BOWMAN DRAFT RC ROOKIE *MINT* $12 QTY


    RANDY JOHNSON 2004 LEAF ORANGE COUNTY EMBOSSED DIAMONDBACKS SP #3/5 $150


    I can't see how this isn't deceptive and sleazy.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofinn36 View Post
    Looking at that Jeter theres one thing that stands out. GAI. I've owned 4 or 5 Gai cards and tried to crossover the few I had after they went out of business the first time. Some were in Gai holders some I cracked. PSA said all of them were trimmed. None crossed over and all of them weren't sent in in GAI holders. Thats not good.
    I sent a couple cards in to PSA in GAI holders. They all came back as "evidence of trimming." I had planned on eating a loss on them but looking at them they did not look trimmed at all (and over the years I've developed a pretty good eye for card size.) I cracked them out and measured against a bunch of commons. They were absolutely 100% full size. I resent them to PSA. They both got graded.

    I'm not saying GAI did not grade some funky items, and I know that you mention some of the items were cracked out, but PSA either is biased against cards in GAI holders, or can't accurately assess a card that is in a holder.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Anthony View Post
    I am calling bs on these shenanigans. I have never in my life seen Wal-Mart use this sleazy "investment potential" price on any of their items. 90 out of 100 true card enthusiasts will agree that this inflated book value price is sleazy and its sole purpose is to DECEIVE potential buyers. Even if you are 100% innocent of the blatant shilling that goes on in many of your auctions, THIS tactic makes you a total scumbag in my book!
    I can't speak of your views on ethics, but the concept of "anchoring" is a classic idea in behavioral economics. Tons of items have an MSRP that is far higher than the listed price. That's designed to make you feel like you are getting a good deal. Walk into a clothing store where the MSRP of a shirt is $80, but it's always at least 50% off. Walk into a music store and you'll see it on every instrument the price is 25% or more less than the MSRP. Jewelry stores were already mentioned. It's a standard practice.

    Does it work in when it comes to ebay and auctions? I have no clue. But the concept is used all over the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhofmann View Post
    This topic stems from everyone thinking they're CSI detectives.

    On that "other" board, 100% of the members believe this is a fake Jeter and blame Probstein for selling.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByFreedom Card Board1409836831.507205.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	208.6 KB 
ID:	40474

    I'm not an expert whatsoever but it looks consistent with early Jeter sigs.

    In my opinion this shows that very few people in this hobby know what the hell they're talking about, myself included.
    There is no chance thats legit and looks nothing like his early signature. It has nothing to do with it being in a GAI holder except the forger used them almost exclusively for a year or 2 before they stopped labbing these.
    Last edited by nyc3; 09-07-2014 at 06:38 PM.

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