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Thread: Why am I expected to tip everywhere I go?

  1. #196
    Senior Member fordman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
    The cheapest rent you can find within the area of Toronto is probably in the $1500/month range. If I cannot afford that, than maybe I should not be living here. Why is relocation not an option? Why is getting off minimum wage not an option? Why are kids and being layed off always being used as an excuse to why you cannot better yourself?
    Sorry the rent in Toronto is so high, but to answer your next question, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME MONEY TO RELOCATE. This seems to fall on deaf ears. If you have nothing to relocate with, where are you expected to go. When you rent, 99% of places want first and last months rent for deposits and most that live on MW cant hardly make the present month without a govt subsidy of some sort, let alone have new deposits for a relocation. As for living in a cheaper part of the country, usually if the rent is cheap, the jobs are few and far between.

    We all know many that have worked for MW for a lot of years, did what they had to do and their corporate bosses refuses to increase their pay because of the corporate profit structure wont allow it. The corporations thrive on low income earners because they know if one quits/fired/lay-off, there will be another come along tomorrow. Corporations thrive on single mom's & older women. They love to exploit them because they are the demograpic less likely to say anything back to the employer because of fear of losing the only income they have.

    Yes, kids makes it hard to relocate. You need sitters for kids. Not everyone has a grandma sitting their grankids while mom-dad are at work. Sitting kids cost an average of $160-$270 per week! No one babysits for $25 a week anymore. After childcare, you cant afford to work on MW, so many dont because they cant even afford food if they have to pay for childcare.

    I know a lot of people that have to take MW jobs or work under the table to survive. They can swing a hammer, turn a wrench, fix just about anything, dig just about any ditch, mow, weld, problem solve and amaze everyone with what skills they have, but everyone wants everyone else's cheap labor! They want eveyone else, except themselves to work for NOTHING!

    Fordman

  2. #197
    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Ok, so explain to me how, without assistance of any kind, a person can live on minimum wage. Explain to me how they can better themselves on minimum wage. How can they go to school without loans(and I say without loans because next some fool will pop off about how they are getting themselves in needless debt and that's their own fault). Explain to me how they are supposed to save money.

    Forget hard times. I'm talking straight out of high school. No mommy.fwy No daddy. Straight up solo.

    The point is, it's damn near impossible unless you want to live under a bridge. I mean...at least that way we could save all this money you're talking about on our minimum wage salaries. Hell, we could even relocate like you said. New bridge every week right? Moving the normal way costs a little money unless you're Forrest Gump and want to go for a jog around the country. And we'd be able to save for school so we can better ourselves. Right?

    That's right. You're only reprieve is for them to go get the very assistance everyone agrees they should do their best to avoid. So again, tell me how this problem is solved by anyone but the business owners. Because as of right now, I've heard they won't or some small businesses can't. I still haven't heard why someone saying they can't without proving it or they won't because they don't feel it's their issue has excluded them from being the linchpin.

    And as far as giving people money, I've little to give. But if and when I get the chance, I already told you what I'm going to do. And I hope, I really do, that I have that chance. Because then I'll be doing everything I can to help someone make enough to live on while you sit back and say it's not your problem.
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  3. #198
    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Ok [MENTION=2367]gt2590[/MENTION], give [MENTION=2283]HPC[/MENTION] 7.50 ebay bucks for the thread

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    Senior Member hive17's Avatar
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    Remember when McD's had a simple solution on how to live on minimum wage? From McDonald corporate:




    See, it's simple: you can't survive on what McDonald's gets to legally pay you, so you just need another job! Have fun getting to know your delinquent latch-key kids.
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    Senior Member fordman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hive17 View Post
    Remember when McD's had a simple solution on how to live on minimum wage? From McDonald corporate:




    See, it's simple: you can't survive on what McDonald's gets to legally pay you, so you just need another job! Have fun getting to know your delinquent latch-key kids.
    Rent/Mortgage $600 ??? HUH? For a one room efficiency?
    Car Payment $150 ??? HUH ? buy here pay here maybe, but not a decent reliable car
    Health Insurance $20 ??? HUH? what policy makes you only pay $20 per month?
    Heating $0 ??? HUH ? Where do they think everyone lives, the Florida Keys?
    Electric $90 ??? HUH ? I havent had an electric bill under $200 since 2001

    Oh and the get a second job aspect of it. What if job #2 's hours dont work with job #1 's hours? Oh, and they have you making less at the second job as well. Kills me that they want you and I, the tax payer to supplement what they refuse to pay. Who was at McDonalds corporate and said "Hey, lets make this budgeting sheet up and start a promotional campaign around it with our employees".

    Fordman

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    Quote Originally Posted by predatorkj View Post
    Ok, so explain to me how, without assistance of any kind, a person can live on minimum wage. Explain to me how they can better themselves on minimum wage. How can they go to school without loans(and I say without loans because next some fool will pop off about how they are getting themselves in needless debt and that's their own fault). Explain to me how they are supposed to save money.

    Forget hard times. I'm talking straight out of high school. No mommy.fwy No daddy. Straight up solo.

    The point is, it's damn near impossible unless you want to live under a bridge. I mean...at least that way we could save all this money you're talking about on our minimum wage salaries. Hell, we could even relocate like you said. New bridge every week right? Moving the normal way costs a little money unless you're Forrest Gump and want to go for a jog around the country. And we'd be able to save for school so we can better ourselves. Right?

    That's right. You're only reprieve is for them to go get the very assistance everyone agrees they should do their best to avoid. So again, tell me how this problem is solved by anyone but the business owners. Because as of right now, I've heard they won't or some small businesses can't. I still haven't heard why someone saying they can't without proving it or they won't because they don't feel it's their issue has excluded them from being the linchpin.

    And as far as giving people money, I've little to give. But if and when I get the chance, I already told you what I'm going to do. And I hope, I really do, that I have that chance. Because then I'll be doing everything I can to help someone make enough to live on while you sit back and say it's not your problem.

    Why in the world do you keep insisting that someone on minimum wage gets no assistance? Are you certain that someone making $7/hr with kids and family gets absolutely no hand outs? No govt rebates? No social assistance? If thats the case then explain how these people have been getting by till now? You are wrong. They make minimum wage and get assistance. What I'm saying is if you raise minimum wage, there is no guarantee they will not still need govt assistance. If you raise minimum wage to a livable wage, there is no guarantee that they will not need more assistance from tax payer money.

    Lets say we go down the road of doing this. Now who's going to pay for it? You think corporations are going to pony up $$ to pay people more just like that? Corporations are owned by us. We own them as we invest in them. We invest our money in them to make us money. So basically we are making the decision to take less in ROI so we can give more money to those who want more?? You expect some big wig to give up his bonuses or take less pay to give these people money? Yet you are not willing to do it.

    The sole reason why I do not want to go down this road is because it will never stop. Somewhere along the line someone will suffer for giving these people more money so they can get better cars, houses and pop more kids. Then we'll figure out that is not enough. So more will have to be given. Then more and more and more.. It never stops. Next thing you know the standard of living goes up and now they want you to pay for their high end cars and cigarettes.

    Never in the history of mankind has it ever worked. Never in history has those in poverty moved out of it. We have more people on welfare every year. We give more of our money to help those in need than ever before. 13 states of invoked a livable wage yet they still have people on social assistance. They still have issues and they still need more funding.

    And lastly, I'm not sitting back saying its not my problem. Its truly is my problem. Because the more I better myself, the money I make. Thus the more in taxes I pay. Thats more money out of my pocket to give to these people. So don't sit there and say Ive done nothing and its not my problem. Those of us who make more also pay more in taxes. You call that fair? That I put more into taxes than the next person and get less than he does back in terms of service? There is no fair.

  7. #202
    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
    Why in the world do you keep insisting that someone on minimum wage gets no assistance? Are you certain that someone making $7/hr with kids and family gets absolutely no hand outs? No govt rebates? No social assistance? If thats the case then explain how these people have been getting by till now? You are wrong. They make minimum wage and get assistance. What I'm saying is if you raise minimum wage, there is no guarantee they will not still need govt assistance. If you raise minimum wage to a livable wage, there is no guarantee that they will not need more assistance from tax payer money.

    Lets say we go down the road of doing this. Now who's going to pay for it? You think corporations are going to pony up $$ to pay people more just like that? Corporations are owned by us. We own them as we invest in them. We invest our money in them to make us money. So basically we are making the decision to take less in ROI so we can give more money to those who want more?? You expect some big wig to give up his bonuses or take less pay to give these people money? Yet you are not willing to do it.

    The sole reason why I do not want to go down this road is because it will never stop. Somewhere along the line someone will suffer for giving these people more money so they can get better cars, houses and pop more kids. Then we'll figure out that is not enough. So more will have to be given. Then more and more and more.. It never stops. Next thing you know the standard of living goes up and now they want you to pay for their high end cars and cigarettes.

    Never in the history of mankind has it ever worked. Never in history has those in poverty moved out of it. We have more people on welfare every year. We give more of our money to help those in need than ever before. 13 states of invoked a livable wage yet they still have people on social assistance. They still have issues and they still need more funding.

    And lastly, I'm not sitting back saying its not my problem. Its truly is my problem. Because the more I better myself, the money I make. Thus the more in taxes I pay. Thats more money out of my pocket to give to these people. So don't sit there and say Ive done nothing and its not my problem. Those of us who make more also pay more in taxes. You call that fair? That I put more into taxes than the next person and get less than he does back in terms of service? There is no fair.
    I'm not saying they aren't receiving assistance. I'm saying they can't do without the assistance. You understand now?

    As far as the rest of your argument...dude I give up. Not because I feel like I have no point, but I just don't think we will agree. Ever.
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  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by predatorkj View Post
    I'm not saying they aren't receiving assistance. I'm saying they can't do without the assistance. You understand now?

    As far as the rest of your argument...dude I give up. Not because I feel like I have no point, but I just don't think we will agree. Ever.
    And what I am saying is that assistance will never stop. Even if they get more, the assistance will continue. You give them $25/hr and they will keep needing more and more money from the govt. All raising wages will do is get them to spend on more useless things and never save. Thats the whole point. All you have is a pipe dream. When this pipe dream of yours doesn't pan out, you'll just say "well!! We tried", all while forgetting the cost of what it took and moving on. I choose to keep it the way it is or cut them off. But no more helping and no more handouts.

    I applaud you for trying to make a difference. But I'm sorry that deferring the cost to corporations isn't working out. I don't know how you expect them to give away their hard earned dollars while you keep yours.

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    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
    And what I am saying is that assistance will never stop. Even if they get more, the assistance will continue. You give them $25/hr and they will keep needing more and more money from the govt. All raising wages will do is get them to spend on more useless things and never save. Thats the whole point. All you have is a pipe dream. When this pipe dream of yours doesn't pan out, you'll just say "well!! We tried", all while forgetting the cost of what it took and moving on. I choose to keep it the way it is or cut them off. But no more helping and no more handouts.

    I applaud you for trying to make a difference. But I'm sorry that deferring the cost to corporations isn't working out. I don't know how you expect them to give away their hard earned dollars while you keep yours.
    LOL

    their hard earned dollars earned for them by those lazy MW collecting employees. You do have your talking points down though, I'll give you that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan0417 View Post
    LOL

    their hard earned dollars earned for them by those lazy MW collecting employees. You do have your talking points down though, I'll give you that...
    Do you honestly think the only people who work hard are MW employees?
    Do you really believe that dollars are only earned by those who make pittance?

    I never said MW were lazy or I never meant to say that. But people keep insinuating that only MW employees work hard while upper management does nothing. Thats not reality. Thats just envy talking for those who can't find a way to the top by working for it.

    MW exists because there is demand for the jobs. Your answer of just taking it from corporations and handing it out based on "they have billions" is absurd. No one wants to give up their wealth from working, yet you expect the corps to do it??

    This fallacy that you have that it takes help and luck to succeed is pure nonsense. I consider myself successful without help and luck. I believe that I made it to where I am with hard work and proper planning. Help and luck are excuses for those who can't do it.

    When I lost my job, I was able to find another. That didn't happen because I was lucky or because I had help. It happened because I worked hard to look and find it.
    I have money saved up and have built my wealth. That didn't happen because I was lucky or because I had help. It happened because I worked hard to save my money by budgeting and sacrificing.

    What are you going to say to those who immigrated to the west with nothing in their pockets and they are on their feet today? You think they were just lucky too? My father immigrated to Canada in the early 60s. Not a single friend or family. Not a dime to his name. He somehow made it with hard work. He probably face much more barriers than most do today on MW. Being a minority took its toll from being able to get a job fitting in from a social perspective. Yet he did it. So I'm still asking why can't someone who already has a job with MW, govt hand out and doesn't face the social barrier others did/do??

  11. #206
    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
    Do you honestly think the only people who work hard are MW employees?
    Do you really believe that dollars are only earned by those who make pittance?

    I never said MW were lazy or I never meant to say that. But people keep insinuating that only MW employees work hard while upper management does nothing. Thats not reality. Thats just envy talking for those who can't find a way to the top by working for it.

    MW exists because there is demand for the jobs. Your answer of just taking it from corporations and handing it out based on "they have billions" is absurd. No one wants to give up their wealth from working, yet you expect the corps to do it??

    This fallacy that you have that it takes help and luck to succeed is pure nonsense. I consider myself successful without help and luck. I believe that I made it to where I am with hard work and proper planning. Help and luck are excuses for those who can't do it.

    When I lost my job, I was able to find another. That didn't happen because I was lucky or because I had help. It happened because I worked hard to look and find it.
    I have money saved up and have built my wealth. That didn't happen because I was lucky or because I had help. It happened because I worked hard to save my money by budgeting and sacrificing.

    What are you going to say to those who immigrated to the west with nothing in their pockets and they are on their feet today? You think they were just lucky too? My father immigrated to Canada in the early 60s. Not a single friend or family. Not a dime to his name. He somehow made it with hard work. He probably face much more barriers than most do today on MW. Being a minority took its toll from being able to get a job fitting in from a social perspective. Yet he did it. So I'm still asking why can't someone who already has a job with MW, govt hand out and doesn't face the social barrier others did/do??

    You keep making the same argument which is the "pull yourself up by the boot straps" as if cliche is an answer to any question. I never made any assumption about any worker making any money. You are the one making those counterpoints.


    I'd get into my family history but it would be lost in this conversation based on the fact that you're so focused on making the same point without looking at the reality of the landscape that its useless to say any more. You are so focused you havent actually even looked at what people are typing to respond, you just type the same thing over and over again. Let the corporations continue to make billions and we'll support their employees with our tax money seems to be your answer.
    Last edited by phillyfan0417; 09-24-2014 at 09:09 AM.
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    I know what some of your are saying. You are basically saying you want to pick the pocket of corporations to give it to poor people working. But you don't know if it will cut back on govt hand outs. You just assume it will. But you are willing to take the chance even if it blows up in your face and backfires because you don't have to eat the cost of the mistake when it does happen.

    Big corporations are saying NO. NO to higher wages because they have more than enough people lined up to do the job at MW. It will not change until there is no line up people willing to do a job for MW. The only people that can make that happen are those on MW. They need to stop working and stop taking jobs at MW. You argue if they do stop, they will no longer be able to live. Well, thats the risk you have to take to get somewhere. Again, demand dictates what these guys get paid. Nothing more. They create the demand and take the jobs.

    A MW worker has no one but himself to blame for making MW. That is the reality of it. No one forced him to make MW or take a job making MW. You honestly have no answers yourself. All you do is point the finger and demand then transfer of wealth.

    MW worker: "I demand more money for the same work I do even though the job does not warrant it"

    Corp: "If you want more money, then find a job that pays more money. I can't justify paying you more for the job you are doing"

    MW worker: "I don't want to find another job. I want this job because its easy. I just want more money"

    Corp: "Listen, if you want more money, go get it elsewhere, Ive got 1000 people lined up that want this job at the wage it makes. The choice is yours"

    MW worker: "I don't want to do anymore work. I JUST WANT MORE MONEY"

    Corp: "NO! If you don't like it....leave. Otherwise get back to work and make your money"

    MW worker: "Ill keep working making MW because I believe I can't do anything more than ask"

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    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
    I know what some of your are saying. You are basically saying you want to pick the pocket of corporations to give it to poor people working. But you don't know if it will cut back on govt hand outs. You just assume it will. But you are willing to take the chance even if it blows up in your face and backfires because you don't have to eat the cost of the mistake when it does happen.

    Once again your argument only makes sense in the same world where unicorns exist. The Federal Poverty level would not be changed if you raise the income of the population unless the VOTERS are too stupid to stop it. Your arguments isnt that it wont work due to some operational issue, it wont work because poor WORKING people will always want more. You've lumped them in with another population that doesnt work to make your point.

    Your asnwer always goes back to people like me paying for it since you feel corporations shouldnt have to.
    "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
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    People like you paying for it? What makes you think I'm not paying for it as well? You keep voting to keep paying. I want it cut off. Put simply, I do not care what happens when they are cut off. I surely don't expect someone else to pick up the slack either. Its high time they got of the "tit"!

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    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
    People like you paying for it? What makes you think I'm not paying for it as well? You keep voting to keep paying. I want it cut off. Put simply, I do not care what happens when they are cut off. I surely don't expect someone else to pick up the slack either. Its high time they got of the "tit"!
    Makes sense.
    "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
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