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Thread: Jason Heyward/Jordan Walden Traded to the Cardinals For Shelby Miller/Tyrell Jenkins

  1. #16
    Senior Member SINFULONE's Avatar
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    Braves bullpen is going to rack up some serious innings when Miller is at 120 pitches through 5 innings.

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    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmint View Post
    Great trade by the Braves, Heywards power is avg for a RF or below avg. His defense is his strong suit. Heyward is gonna want a hug payday. Braves got back a good young arm to insert in a good young controllable rotation.
    Heyward's value is not his power, it is the culmination of his skills. I do not give much credence to the theory that a certain position must have a certain type of offensive skill set. Meaning, just because a lot of power hitters occupy the 1st base position does not mean you do not get value at that position without power numbers. Heyward's value is in run creation and prevention. You do not have to be a power hitter to be valuable in run creation. And as you stated, though understated, he is the best defensive RF'er in the game and by a wide margin. He certainly will be in for a pay raise going into his 2016 season, but what do you see as huge? Keep in mind, he is just 25 and one of the most valuable OF'ers in the game but like you also said he does not give you eye popping power. I think he can be had at a reasonable rate for the value provided. The Cardinals have the inside track on locking down a star for his prime seasons.

    The Braves get Miller for 2015, just like the Cardinals get Heyward for 2015 under control at a reasonable rate, but Miller will be arbitration eligible going into 2016. So the control will be there but will the rate be reasonable going forward? I would like Miller at the back end of my favorite team's rotation but if you are looking toward a top spot I do not see Miller being that at all. He has a two pitch mix, with a mid-90's four-seam fastball and an often flat curve that he has a hard time throwing for strikes.
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    Senior Member markakis8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    At first glance, I don't like the trade.

    I don't like giving up Shelby for a one year, horribly injury prone, rental.

    Hopefully this means Max Scherzer is going to sign with the Cardinals now.
    Cardinals raped the Braves. Be happy.

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    Senior Member markakis8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    Heyward's value is not his power, it is the culmination of his skills. I do not give much credence to the theory that a certain position must have a certain type of offensive skill set. Meaning, just because a lot of power hitters occupy the 1st base position does not mean you do not get value at that position without power numbers. Heyward's value is in run creation and prevention. You do not have to be a power hitter to be valuable in run creation. And as you stated, though understated, he is the best defensive RF'er in the game and by a wide margin. He certainly will be in for a pay raise going into his 2016 season, but what do you see as huge? Keep in mind, he is just 25 and one of the most valuable OF'ers in the game but like you also said he does not give you eye popping power. I think he can be had at a reasonable rate for the value provided. The Cardinals have the inside track on locking down a star for his prime seasons.

    The Braves get Miller for 2015, just like the Cardinals get Heyward for 2015 under control at a reasonable rate, but Miller will be arbitration eligible going into 2016. So the control will be there but will the rate be reasonable going forward? I would like Miller at the back end of my favorite team's rotation but if you are looking toward a top spot I do not see Miller being that at all. He has a two pitch mix, with a mid-90's four-seam fastball and an often flat curve that he has a hard time throwing for strikes.
    This guy gets it. Like I said, Cardinals win here. Especially if Heyward loves St. Louis.

  5. #20
    Member heartyourlife's Avatar
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    I was thinking about this and other bigger Cardinals trades from recent years, and there seems to be a common trend: the top "golden child" prospect that get the most hype are typically the ones that don't pan out and get moved versus the guys who get drafted in the late rounds and come through the system and make more of an impact at the major league level. Shelby Miller seems to be Colby Ramsus 2.0. Is it that they just can't live up to the hype machine or the pressure of being brought up into a winning environment? Shelby wasn't brought up in the LaRussa era so you can't blame him in that regard. He seems like a "change of scenery" type guy at this point after losing his best friend (Joe Kelly) and receiving less than full support from the team (2013 playoffs). I can see that he has an upside, but not with the Cardinals even prior to the trade.

    I would like to see Heyward get extended if he shows he can fit into the system here and buys into the "Cardinals Way". Being 25 gives him the chance to figure out what he wants more: a bigger contract or being on a winning ball club that has playoff capability year after year. It's not to say he can't have both, but some seem more important than the other to some players. He definitely brings a few elements to the team that they could use (defense, speed). Maybe he just needs a change of scenery as well...
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    I give the edge to the Cardinals in this trade.

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    Senior Member George_Calfas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James52411 View Post
    Cardinals only win the trade if they re-sign Heyward. Miller could be a middle of the rotation guy for the next decade, with potential upside to be better than that.
    Dont forget, if they dont resign Heyward the Cards receive a first round pick in exchange.

  8. #23
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    I like the trade for both teams. I don't think Shelby was going to live up to his hype in STL and Heyward has plateaued in ATL. A win / win, where both teams fill needs.


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    Administrator James52411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George_Calfas View Post
    Dont forget, if they dont resign Heyward the Cards receive a first round pick in exchange.
    Good point. So one year of Heyward, Walden for the bullpen, and a first round pick, in exchange for 4 years of Miller, who will be arbitration eligible for most of the contract. I guess there is the chance that Miller pays the Braves a pick in 2019 if he leaves. It's a defensible trade for the Cardinals if Heyward leaves, particularly since STL is dealing from a strength and it's tough to get a bat these days.

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    If heyward didn't play gold glove defense he would be a platoon player.
    his splits were terrible. His bat has never lived up to the power projections. Maybe the change is what he needs
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    All I know is someone apparently snapped up the 2011 Museum Edition Heyward that'd been sitting on ebay for a long time. I kept waiting for the seller to drop the price. Should've taken negotiation offline.
    Looking for 2011 Topps Marquee Museum autographs, rare Frank Thomases, and any Grady Sizemores I don't have

  12. #27
    Senior Member SINFULONE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smapdi View Post
    All I know is someone apparently snapped up the 2011 Museum Edition Heyward that'd been sitting on ebay for a long time. I kept waiting for the seller to drop the price. Should've taken negotiation offline.
    How much was it?

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    Senior Member bmp1971's Avatar
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    I had this back in the summer of 2010 and got $575 for it. I doubt it will ever get that again.




    Cardinals filled a void, so they are content, I'm sure. Braves are stocking up on pitching, so they are content, I'm sure. I'd rather have a solid starting pitcher (nevermind Jenkins) than an average hitting (with below-average power numbers) outfielder. Maybe the Red Sox can trade Jackie Bradley Jr. to St.Louis now for Carlos Martinez or Marco Gonzales?

    Even Pedro Martinez' numbers showed some "regression" for his first several years in the majors, and then? Obviously the Braves see more potential in Miller than Heyward. I guess we shall all find out soon...
    Last edited by bmp1971; 11-21-2014 at 11:07 PM.
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    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmint View Post
    If heyward didn't play gold glove defense he would be a platoon player.
    his splits were terrible. His bat has never lived up to the power projections. Maybe the change is what he needs
    Sorry but no. You seem fixated on his power projections. His wRC+ in contrast was middle of the pack for all qualified OF'ers and RF'ers alike, above power hitters like Cespedes. His best tool is his defense but his speed and OBP provides value in run creation.
    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  15. #30
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    Sorry but no. You seem fixated on his power projections. His wRC+ in contrast was middle of the pack for all qualified OF'ers and RF'ers alike, above power hitters like Cespedes. His best tool is his defense but his speed and OBP provides value in run creation.
    Does he play GG D though?





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