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Thread: You can't fight city hall- eBay protecting large sellers and shillers (probstein content)

  1. #76
    Senior Member Keyser Soze's Avatar
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    I never understood why anyone complains about this. Consigners don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to police. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.
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    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
    I never understood why anyone complains about this. Sellers don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to prove. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.
    I didn't get them at fair market value. The true current market value was the amount before they were shilled. There is now a current market value that was inflated due to the shilling. How is this simple concept so difficult to grasp??

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    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsuicollector View Post
    it's likely that the items would have been bid up somewhat by others.
    Oh, it's likely is it? How in gods name could you possibly say "it's likely"

    Cards end at various prices everyday. But "it's likely" that these 7 cards, cards you don't even know what they are, were "likely " to have snipes and more bidders on them.

    Give me a break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsuicollector View Post
    This is the part where complaining about shilling runs into a problem in my opinion. It seems like you won all cards for at or below market price based on your statement and were happy with the prices. However, the difference between what you would have paid and what you were shilled for is likely not the true difference in what you would have ended up paying. Who's to say there wasn't someone else with snipes a few dollars less than the shill bidder that didn't go through because he was outbid? Sure the difference between the pre-shill and post-shill was ~$60, but you can't make the seller responsible for that because at prices around market value, it's likely that the items would have been bid up somewhat by others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
    I never understood why anyone complains about this. Consigners don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to police. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.
    You people who try to defend shilling as long as the card went for "market value", or trying to justify it by saying that the bidder bid his highest amount that he is willing to pay just make me laugh as there is NO justification for shilling in either of these circumstances. The thing is ANY form of shilling on eBay is against their policy and SHOULD NOT be tolerated, no matter whether the winning bidder was "comfortable" paying the price of his/her maximum bid or not. Here is the current eBay policy on shill bidding and the actions that can be taken against the members who condone shill bidding on their auctions. The point it appears the OP is trying to make is that even when presented with evidence of shilling, eBay failed to protect him based on their own policy's and refused to take action against the seller. In fact, helped him, by removing feedback left by the buyer who was unhappy with being shilled, despite whether or not he was "comfortable" or not paying the prices he won the auctions at. Again, ANY form of shilling is against eBay policy and should not be tolerated in any form. eBay's failure to enforce their own policy is the main concern and the main reason shilling is allowed to continue.

    Our shill bidding policy is very simple:
    Shill bidding is bidding by anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or onlineconnections—that artificially increases an item's price or apparent desirability. In addition, members can't bid on or buy items with the intent to artificially increase a seller's Feedback or to improve the item's search standing. Shill bidding is not allowed on eBay.
    Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

    • Listing cancellation
    • Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
    • Limits on account privileges
    • Loss of PowerSeller status
    • Account suspension
    • Referral to Law Enforcement
    Last edited by Luck15Hope; 01-15-2015 at 03:15 PM.

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    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
    I never understood why anyone complains about this. Consigners don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to police. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.
    It's against eBay TOS. Should eBay not care when people violate their TOS? Agreed that the consigner will not care, but why should eBay not care when people break their TOS?

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    Senior Member MansGame's Avatar
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    So many threads recently about shilling, etc. I honestly don't see why anyone thinks eBay gives a sh!t about people shilling... bigger selling price = happy sellers = more fees in their pocket

    Not saying I'm for it or agree with it but I'm getting to the point where I just think eBay doesn't give a crap.
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  7. #82
    Senior Member Keyser Soze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancemountain View Post

    I won all 7, two for a very low price and the other 5 for about market average. I paid not thinking too much about it. Fair play-service and shipping was quick and Probstein had delivered my cards in a few short days. It needed a signature and was returned to my main HUB and it took a sweek for me to retrieve the package. Cards were packed well and were in good shape.
    These are YOUR words. YOU are the one that claimed you got 5 of them for fair market average and 2 of them at a very low price.
    Currently looking for the following:
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    -Carlos Correa, George Springer
    -2015 Heritage HN Action RCs of Correa, Bryant, Lindor, Syndergaard, Gallo, Buxton, Russell, Rodon

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    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MansGame View Post
    So many threads recently about shilling, etc. I honestly don't see why anyone thinks eBay gives a sh!t about people shilling... bigger selling price = happy sellers = more fees in their pocket

    Not saying I'm for it or agree with it but I'm getting to the point where I just think eBay doesn't give a crap.
    Less buyers = smaller sales = smaller commissions.

    There is a fine line; eBay has made it explicitly clear that this is against their TOS. Once you put something as against your TOS you have a duty to police it, therefore they should care.

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    Senior Member MansGame's Avatar
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    Also, for what it is worth, don't you think if someone wanted to shill they would be a little smarter about it? I mean I don't shill obviously being that I rarely sell anything and are a buyer 99% of the time but honestly I don't think it would be that hard for me to sell an item on eBay and just contact one of my FB friends to throw in a few bids or gixen or whatever. I don't see how someone could be so stupid as to bid 100% only on a few items from the same seller, all in the same fashion. Leads me to believe maybe it was someone just like the OP who liked each of those cards and wanted to take a stab at them, idk.

    I'm done ranting... carry on.
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  10. #85
    Senior Member MansGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerun28aa View Post
    Less buyers = smaller sales = smaller commissions.

    There is a fine line; eBay has made it explicitly clear that this is against their TOS. Once you put something as against your TOS you have a duty to police it, therefore they should care.
    OF COURSE they would make it "explicitly clear" in their TOS. They are a public company and they have to do that. That doesn't mean deep down inside they really don't care and that they have bigger fish to fry than some guy buying baseball cards and is concerned about $62 he was shilled.

    Again, not sticking up for the shiller here but just feel like eBay really doesn't care about stuff like this.
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  11. #86
    Senior Member Keyser Soze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck15Hope View Post
    You people who try to defend shilling as long as the card went for "market value", or trying to justify it by saying that the bidder bid his highest amount that he is willing to pay just make me laugh as there is NO justification for shilling in either of these circumstances. The thing is ANY form of shilling on eBay is against their policy and SHOULD NOT be tolerated, no matter whether the winning bidder was "comfortable" paying the price of his/her maximum bid or not. Here is the current eBay policy on shill bidding and the actions that can be taken against the members who condone shill bidding on their auctions. The point it appears the OP is trying to make is that even when presented with evidence of shilling, eBay failed to protect him based on their own policy's and refused to take action against the seller. In fact, helped him, by removing feedback left by the buyer who was unhappy with being shilled, despite whether or not he was "comfortable" or not paying the prices he won the auctions at. Again, ANY form of shilling is against eBay policy and should not be tolerated in any form. eBay's failure to enforce their own policy is the main concern and the main reason shilling is allowed to continue.

    Our shill bidding policy is very simple:
    Shill bidding is bidding by anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or onlineconnections—that artificially increases an item's price or apparent desirability. In addition, members can't bid on or buy items with the intent to artificially increase a seller's Feedback or to improve the item's search standing. Shill bidding is not allowed on eBay.
    Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

    • Listing cancellation
    • Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
    • Limits on account privileges
    • Loss of PowerSeller status
    • Account suspension
    • Referral to Law Enforcement

    I'm not defending it, there is just ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can be done about it, so stop *****ing about it. The sooner you accept it and move on with your life, the happier you'll be.

    You said it yourself, it's eBay's rule, but they won't do anything about it because it's more money in their pockets. So just move on.... dedicate your time and anger towards something where you can actually facilitate change
    Last edited by Keyser Soze; 01-15-2015 at 03:24 PM.
    Currently looking for the following:
    -90's Bagwell and Biggio rare inserts & parallels
    -Carlos Correa, George Springer
    -2015 Heritage HN Action RCs of Correa, Bryant, Lindor, Syndergaard, Gallo, Buxton, Russell, Rodon

  12. #87
    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
    These are YOUR words. YOU are the one that claimed you got 5 of them for fair market average and 2 of them at a very low price.
    The market average previous to these sales. These are low numbered cards.

    7 more sales creates a new market value

  13. #88
    Senior Member MansGame's Avatar
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    Not to mention, they're the #1 auction site on the planet. Again, I don't think they're concerned about a bunch of guys buying baseball cards on their site and getting pissed that they think they're getting shilled and leave eBay forever haha... I mean lets get serious. They have all the buyers attention... they need the sellers to have items up for sale... someone will buy them... with no sellers, there is nothing for the buyers to buy.
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  14. #89
    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Thought you were done

  15. #90
    Senior Member MansGame's Avatar
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    For the record, I've been shilled a lot on Belle cards and it pisses me off. I wish there was a good answer but I'm afraid right now there isn't. Reminds me kind of like the stock market and high frequency traders. Anyone read the book Flash Boys? Good book, pick it up and read it.
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