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Thread: Card show promoter question

  1. #31
    Administrator moxacaine's Avatar
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    In my opinion, every dealer who doesnt show up with a little mix of everything is only hurting themselves.
    [MENTION=4788]Kennesawsportscards[/MENTION] , your issue is your dealers that are complaining not the discount box guys. People collect what they want regardless. Like it was already mentioned, the guys who are at the bargain tables are most likely not shopping for the cards the other guys have. Sure sometimes there is overlap but they're two different collectors. And if you have a lack of people spending money at the other guys tables its most likely because A. the declining interest in the hobby B. the seller (like mentioned before) has the same old cards every show. C. Are ridiciously priced.

    Dont think one type of customer doesnt show up because some dealers dont have what theyre looking for. If sellers are complaining theyre not making money, they need to first look at themselves because the problem most likely lies with them.


    If a collector wants a mid-high end card they can go on ebay most days of the week and buy those same cards well under what crazy show sellers are trying to move them at. On the flip side, those that like the low end cards for whatever reason, be it team sets, fill set needs, etc they prefer the shows because they dont have to pay $3 shipping on every card they buy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CollectorsCorner View Post
    What does this small town Iowa show have anything to do with an Atlanta show?

    Nothing at all. This is not about whether Iowa or Atlanta. It is about a concept whether it was a good idea to include a dealer with cheap cards to be included in a small show and if it would affect your dealers or buying public. Basically, is it a good idea or not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerun28aa View Post
    The notion that 3 tables, even at a smaller show, can create a "cheap" culture to your show seems questionable at best. You have the guys that go to shows who are going to spend $50 and not buy a single item more than $5 and you're going to get other guys who spend $2K on 6 cards in total. Those people aren't going to change; the guy who has $2K in his pocket won't suddenly start sifting through bargain boxes and the guy with $50 isn't going to withdraw $1K more just because the show is full of only high-end stuff. Most shows have a little bit of each and if there are dealers complaining it's probably because they have generic stuff that others have seen 100s of times.

    I wish that was the case here in Atlanta........Problem here is that one guy with 3 tables has expanded to many guys competing against that, resulting in changing the culture of the show. Ask anyone here who wants to sell high end stuff at these smaller ATL shows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moxacaine View Post
    In my opinion, every dealer who doesnt show up with a little mix of everything is only hurting themselves.
    @Kennesawsportscards , your issue is your dealers that are complaining not the discount box guys. People collect what they want regardless. Like it was already mentioned, the guys who are at the bargain tables are most likely not shopping for the cards the other guys have. Sure sometimes there is overlap but they're two different collectors. And if you have a lack of people spending money at the other guys tables its most likely because A. the declining interest in the hobby B. the seller (like mentioned before) has the same old cards every show. C. Are ridiciously priced.

    Dont think one type of customer doesnt show up because some dealers dont have what theyre looking for. If sellers are complaining theyre not making money, they need to first look at themselves because the problem most likely lies with them.


    If a collector wants a mid-high end card they can go on ebay most days of the week and buy those same cards well under what crazy show sellers are trying to move them at. On the flip side, those that like the low end cards for whatever reason, be it team sets, fill set needs, etc they prefer the shows because they dont have to pay $3 shipping on every card they buy.

    Much truth to what you say here. However, if you are attracting Dollar store buyers to your show then that is the type of dealer you will attract as well. Most higher dollar sellers here however seem to depend on a small handfull of customers to make their show. Unfortunately, not enough of those buyers are coming in to these shows.

  5. #35
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennesawsportscards View Post
    I wish that was the case here in Atlanta........Problem here is that one guy with 3 tables has expanded to many guys competing against that, resulting in changing the culture of the show. Ask anyone here who wants to sell high end stuff at these smaller ATL shows.
    It seems like simple supply and demand to me if this is the case though. If the long-term result at shows in Atlanta has been that you get the cheap bargain dealers setting up week after week to me that's saying that week after week those guys are able to make money. I would assume that the higher end dealers sell in much lower quantities but with much higher margins, so that's probably why a small/lower end show isn't worth it to them. I only go to the east coast national kind of shows now with 300 tables because the table prices are high, they have high-end autograph guests, they charge admission, etc. - these are all factors that I think contribute to higher-end stuff being out on the floor. There are local shows out on long island that I've been to maybe once or twice in the last couple years because I know I'm going to see a bunch of low prospect autos and modern jersey cards numbered out of 299. IMO high-end stuff is much more difficult to liquidate I guess that's why those dealers have to take huge advantage of shows like the national I think regardless of how many bargain box dealers show up to a small show the higher end guys wouldn't get much table visits anyways.

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    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Eddie, sounds like a show I'd love to attend.

    I can't help but laughing when I read Kennesaw's OP....seriously dude...collectors get trained to be cheap? Lol.

    I walked into Tristar this weekend with plenty of money to spend and I left with around $80 in cards. I spent quite a bit of time at the bargain bins(10 cent, 25 cent, 1 dollar). But every time I went to a table, guys were charging "high book". For cards worth nowhere close. I did pick up a few random autos of guys I needed. But these dealers are a joke. I was trying to be respectful, asking if there's a way they could work on a price. I knew it was a mistake when the guy wanted $60 for a random Yovanni Gallardo auto. I asked him what method he used to price and he said "Beckett full book. Is there anything else?". I purchased a few cards from him but quickly walked away. About the only thing high end I really considered was a Reggie Jackson rookie I liked but wasn't hip on the grade and would like a slightly better one. Was also on the hint for a few other HOF graded rookies. So it wasn't because I'm a cheap buyer. It's because I don't want to waste my money on Beckett's warped idea of value.

    It seems to me some dealers want Beckett to matter. They want the old days back when cards were worth a ton. So maybe collectors don't need to be retrained. Maybe dealers should join reality. There are plenty of us with money out there. But I'd rather finish off sets or pick up random inserts for a hell of a deal than play games with "...high book" kind of people. I'd even pay a bit more than eBay because I'm buying in person. But if you don't like it because I won't overpay...whatever...that's kinda funny.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
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  7. #37
    Junior Member bobthewondercat77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennesawsportscards View Post
    [/B]Then tell that to every high end dealer in Atlanta and ask them why they don't do the shows here on a regular basis and complain about all the 25/50/1.00 box dealers. Ask any National dealer why they cry doom and gloom and refuse to ever come to this city again every time I tell them that I am from Atlanta. If you are not here in this city then your opinion has no real basis other than a guess. BTW I do very well when I do a larger show, including the National.
    I don't doubt that there are some dealers that would operate that way... I'm just saying that's on them. If you want to make money, bring what the customers want to buy. If the buyers at this show are spending $50 on quarter cards instead of $5K on T206 slabs, then adjust.

    I have heard so much complaining over the years about how difficult it is to make money selling cards, and I sympathize with much of it, but I still see the dealers who keep a broad array of fresh, relevant inventory, well-organized and well-priced, continue to do well. Whether its 25c sales or $100 sales, it's all about always buying, flipping, organizing, developing relationships with customers, etc.

    So when someone blames something else (other dealers, customers, the internet, the economy etc) without doing those things... I take it with a big ol grain of salt.

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    Senior Member tramers's Avatar
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    Local show is about 20% sports cards - comics , hot wheels , toys and dolls . There are some larger dealers with great stuff with fair prices . Also some bring same cards / prices next shows - I don't go every time . Some have .10 boxes of commons and $1.00 boxes . Just not a lot of hard core collectors in this area . I will say over half do not make $200.00 .

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerun28aa View Post
    It seems like simple supply and demand to me if this is the case though. If the long-term result at shows in Atlanta has been that you get the cheap bargain dealers setting up week after week to me that's saying that week after week those guys are able to make money. I would assume that the higher end dealers sell in much lower quantities but with much higher margins, so that's probably why a small/lower end show isn't worth it to them. I only go to the east coast national kind of shows now with 300 tables because the table prices are high, they have high-end autograph guests, they charge admission, etc. - these are all factors that I think contribute to higher-end stuff being out on the floor. There are local shows out on long island that I've been to maybe once or twice in the last couple years because I know I'm going to see a bunch of low prospect autos and modern jersey cards numbered out of 299. IMO high-end stuff is much more difficult to liquidate I guess that's why those dealers have to take huge advantage of shows like the national I think regardless of how many bargain box dealers show up to a small show the higher end guys wouldn't get much table visits anyways.

    Don't overestimate the amount of money the people in Atlanta are making. Not true. And I am not entirely against the cheaper buyers and dealer as well. Surprised that there is not a better market here at these shows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by predatorkj View Post
    Eddie, sounds like a show I'd love to attend.

    I can't help but laughing when I read Kennesaw's OP....seriously dude...collectors get trained to be cheap? Lol.

    I walked into Tristar this weekend with plenty of money to spend and I left with around $80 in cards. I spent quite a bit of time at the bargain bins(10 cent, 25 cent, 1 dollar). But every time I went to a table, guys were charging "high book". For cards worth nowhere close. I did pick up a few random autos of guys I needed. But these dealers are a joke. I was trying to be respectful, asking if there's a way they could work on a price. I knew it was a mistake when the guy wanted $60 for a random Yovanni Gallardo auto. I asked him what method he used to price and he said "Beckett full book. Is there anything else?". I purchased a few cards from him but quickly walked away. About the only thing high end I really considered was a Reggie Jackson rookie I liked but wasn't hip on the grade and would like a slightly better one. Was also on the hint for a few other HOF graded rookies. So it wasn't because I'm a cheap buyer. It's because I don't want to waste my money on Beckett's warped idea of value.

    It seems to me some dealers want Beckett to matter. They want the old days back when cards were worth a ton. So maybe collectors don't need to be retrained. Maybe dealers should join reality. There are plenty of us with money out there. But I'd rather finish off sets or pick up random inserts for a hell of a deal than play games with "...high book" kind of people. I'd even pay a bit more than eBay because I'm buying in person. But if you don't like it because I won't overpay...whatever...that's kinda funny.
    Seriously dude.....Even though there are alot of folks that are cheap by nature and that will never change and obviously you indicate that you are that type and you are welcomed here to buy from these folks as well. However, when dealers go from giving good deals to operating in a panic mode state just to generate sales and other dealers follow suit, then yes you are training your buyers to be this way. Laugh all you want but this is what is going on here and you are only looking from your perspective as a buyer.

    Plus, even though my sales are not what I or most high dollar dealers would like here in ATL I mostly buy my way out of most shows, so i am pleased. Just today bought 4 or 5 trout autos, a couple of Abreu autos, Abreu 1/1 from Tek, Kobe autos, plenty of Lebron, Trout, Brady RCs. And no steal of deals either......Just buy according to what I feel is a win/win to both parties instead of only looking for steals or cheap deals. Not all together against that, it is just not my thing.....I just happen to be one of those who rarely looks through those cheap boxes. Certainly alot of folks love it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthewondercat77 View Post
    I don't doubt that there are some dealers that would operate that way... I'm just saying that's on them. If you want to make money, bring what the customers want to buy. If the buyers at this show are spending $50 on quarter cards instead of $5K on T206 slabs, then adjust.

    I have heard so much complaining over the years about how difficult it is to make money selling cards, and I sympathize with much of it, but I still see the dealers who keep a broad array of fresh, relevant inventory, well-organized and well-priced, continue to do well. Whether its 25c sales or $100 sales, it's all about always buying, flipping, organizing, developing relationships with customers, etc.

    So when someone blames something else (other dealers, customers, the internet, the economy etc) without doing those things... I take it with a big ol grain of salt.
    Of course dealers have to adjust to certain market conditions, but in a market such as Atl, which is not the best to begin with( ask any National dealer) a cheaper environment is not my thing. Adjustment or no adjustment.

  12. #42
    Senior Member predatorkj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennesawsportscards View Post
    Seriously dude.....Even though there are alot of folks that are cheap by nature and that will never change and obviously you indicate that you are that type and you are welcomed here to buy from these folks as well. However, when dealers go from giving good deals to operating in a panic mode state just to generate sales and other dealers follow suit, then yes you are training your buyers to be this way. Laugh all you want but this is what is going on here and you are only looking from your perspective as a buyer.

    Plus, even though my sales are not what I or most high dollar dealers would like here in ATL I mostly buy my way out of most shows, so i am pleased. Just today bought 4 or 5 trout autos, a couple of Abreu autos, Abreu 1/1 from Tek, Kobe autos, plenty of Lebron, Trout, Brady RCs. And no steal of deals either......Just buy according to what I feel is a win/win to both parties instead of only looking for steals or cheap deals. Not all together against that, it is just not my thing.....I just happen to be one of those who rarely looks through those cheap boxes. Certainly alot of folks love it.
    Well you just come off as kind of upset about it which is why I responded like I did. My apologies if I sounded like a jerk. Trust me, I'm not a cheap collector. I spend more than I care to admit on cards. But I happen to like rookie cards and 90's stuff and I find a lot of both in the bargain bins.

    I guess I'm not looking for a steal. Just looking for stuff I collect and things that appeal to me that I haven't seen a lot of. Stuff I don't find online because in some cases I didn't know it existed. Stuff I know I'll find in those bargain bins. The high end stuff is easy as pie to find. Now...if a guy would sell some Bagwell's I needed, I'd be spending like crazy at the shows.

    Besides, a lot of these guys selling the higher dollar cards are in no way competitive. It's tough buying high dollar cards, only picking up one or two, and calling it a day, all when you could have saved a fortune on eBay. Like I said, I'll pay more at a show than on eBay. But not by 500% because people go by full high book.
    Collecting Jeff Bagwell all day every day!
    Current Jeff Bagwell count: 4,637 different cards!
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    Also collecting Jack Lambert and football players from all Texas colleges!

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    I just went to Tristar in Houston today and paid my $ 10 parking plus $ 12 to get in for the four hours I looked around. Do I care about paying $$$ to get pictures or autographs of Mike Tyson, Hulk Hogan, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens and stand in long lines to see them behind a curtain? No. . Since Im a set builder I appreciate the fact there are some dealers who bring some cheap boxes to sift through. Did that keep me there rather than go over to another guys table who was selling $ 50 to $500 cards, one in particular whom I saw eagle eyeing every person who came to his table. No not really. I saw lot of people going through organized boxes of 60s and buying.
    as well so I thought it was good mix of vintage card dealers and some cheaper more current cards. Most of the table dealers I found to be decent guys

    Many of the dealer's show boxes were loaded with new Raw Grading Beckett cards freshly graded as Beckett had a table there selling magazines 2 for $ 5 . The grader was hidden behind a curtain doing raw grading for $ 20 late in the day. There is something I find a bit duplicit in the way the grading is handled by Beckett who has a table who is first grading cards at a discount for the table owners who ar both looking to selel their stuff and buy yours . Not to mention the fact that Beckett makes you take your card out of a screwdown holder (at Your risk.. I get it) and then get you to try to cram your card into a thin plastic cheap toploader (risking dinking of corner of card) and hand it to them where it then disappears behind a curtain

    PS I will openly admit Im a cheap collector. I don't really need baseball cards so if I can find them cheap I will buy for sets. I much prefer to trade but the days where you could go to a show and you could trade with other show attendees as a thing of the past
    Last edited by togaman; 02-16-2015 at 12:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by predatorkj View Post
    Well you just come off as kind of upset about it which is why I responded like I did. My apologies if I sounded like a jerk. Trust me, I'm not a cheap collector. I spend more than I care to admit on cards. But I happen to like rookie cards and 90's stuff and I find a lot of both in the bargain bins.

    I guess I'm not looking for a steal. Just looking for stuff I collect and things that appeal to me that I haven't seen a lot of. Stuff I don't find online because in some cases I didn't know it existed. Stuff I know I'll find in those bargain bins. The high end stuff is easy as pie to find. Now...if a guy would sell some Bagwell's I needed, I'd be spending like crazy at the shows.

    Besides, a lot of these guys selling the higher dollar cards are in no way competitive. It's tough buying high dollar cards, only picking up one or two, and calling it a day, all when you could have saved a fortune on eBay. Like I said, I'll pay more at a show than on eBay. But not by 500% because people go by full high book.
    Totally understandable. Just hard to try and promote well-being in the hobby when you have local shows that are comprised with alot of 10/25/50/1.00 cards. Overpaying, however is something none of us like. Of course, even that becomes subjective, especially when people are only going with BOOK values and using Beckett as the buy all/end all, which is another topic altogether. Anyone have Tek diffractors for book(as an example).

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    Quote Originally Posted by togaman View Post
    I just went to Tristar in Houston today and paid my $ 10 parking plus $ 12 to get in for the four hours I looked around. Do I care about paying $$$ to get pictures or autographs of Mike Tyson, Hulk Hogan, Andy Pettite, Roger Clemens and stand in long lines to see them behind a curtain? No. . Since Im a set builder I appreciate the fact there are some dealers who bring some cheap boxes to sift through. Did that keep me there rather than go over to another guys table who was selling $ 50 to $500 cards, one in particular whom I saw eagle eyeing every person who came to his table. No not really. I saw lot of people going through organized boxes of 60s and buying.
    as well so I thought it was good mix of vintage card dealers and some cheaper more current cards. Most of the table dealers I found to be decent guys

    Many of the dealer's show boxes were loaded with new Raw Grading Beckett cards freshly graded as Beckett had a table there selling magazines 2 for $ 5 . The grader was hidden behind a curtain doing raw grading for $ 20 late in the day. There is something I find a bit duplicit in the way the grading is handled by Beckett who has a table who is first grading cards at a discount for the table owners who ar both looking to selel their stuff and buy yours . Not to mention the fact that Beckett makes you take your card out of a screwdown holder (at Your risk.. I get it) and then get you to try to cram your card into a thin plastic cheap toploader (risking dinking of corner of card) and hand it to them where it then disappears behind a curtain

    PS I will openly admit Im a cheap collector. I don't really need baseball cards so if I can find them cheap I will buy for sets. I much prefer to trade but the days where you could go to a show and you could trade with other show attendees as a thing of the past
    I agree trading is a becoming harder, but is becoming hard on both ends. Too many customers who want full retail value for their cards and want to trade off of dealers already discounted price. Have this happen at least 3 or 4 times every show. Thats why I primarlily just buy outright and sell the same.

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