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Thread: Well, this could make the 2016 Presedential Election more interesting...

  1. #106
    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    Of course this is politics. Republicans are simply using the gifts handed to them by the Democrats. They aren't responsible for Hillary and her involvement with the Middle East policy that collapsed Libya and they aren't responsible for her decision to host her email on a private server that was free from FOIA searches.

    Whether or not Hillary deleted government emails does not matter, she has given Republicans the opening to keep the Benghazi issue alive. Republicans will try to connect the dots for voters. (Of course it is very simplistic and takes out a lot of nuance, but it is exactly the message they will use to target voters.)

    Hillary Middle East policy collapses Libya --> Benghazi & Growth of ISIS --> Chaos & Christian beheadings throughout the Middle East and Libya



    What policy would you say lead to the growth of these terrorists? Out of which conflict were they born?

    How many Christians have been beheaded by ISIS in the Middle East? How many Muslims have been beheaded by ISIS in the Middle East?

    I'm assuming this is meant to be an actual discussion.

    Actually, i think I'd have more respect for the republicans if the hearings were about american failures in the middle east. that would seem to be an actual thing to discuss.
    Last edited by phillyfan0417; 04-24-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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  2. #107
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department’s Worldwide Security Protection program — well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration’s request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected.
    [GOP vice presidential nominee Paul] Ryan, [Rep. Darrell] Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions. Under Ryan’s budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security.
    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  3. #108
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyfan0417 View Post
    What policy would you say lead to the growth of these terrorists? Out of which conflict were they born?

    How many Christians have been beheaded by ISIS in the Middle East? How many Muslims have been beheaded by ISIS in the Middle East?

    I'm assuming this is meant to be an actual discussion.

    Actually, i think I'd have more respect for the republicans if the hearings were about american failures in the middle east. that would seem to be an actual thing to discuss.
    What is there to discuss? The fact that America has failed in the Middle East is clear as day. The only thing left to discuss is how we're going to move forward, since we can't be doing any worse than we are now any change in policy would do. IMO the government just failed, from the administration to the GOP run House whose been putting roadblocks in every step of the way. Our foreign policy needs a major overhaul.

  4. #109
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hive17 View Post
    What incident could have happened after the investigations? Furthermore, what does that have to do with the deaths of 4 Americans?

    Do you not think that Hillary testifying in open meetings qualifies as cooperation? Was she testy? Sure. Because unlike EVERY OTHER AMERICAN DEATH IN THE SERVICE OF THEIR COUNTRY, the Republicans thought it would be prudent to dig for dirt and embarrass the Clinton-led State Department. She still testified, even though this public after action review was still just a mechanism to attack to administration in public.

    So, I'll say that there was total cooperation the fist few times. Republicans couldn't find anything that was damaging enough to the Obama Administration or Hillary, so they kept going, knowing the process is damaging, even though there is no further "truth" to find. The burden of proof from here on out is on the leaders of these witch-hunts.

    You keep saying that the first half-dozen hearings weren't complete. You keep saying that because you, like Boehner and the rest of the Republicans, won't consider the process done until Hillary is politically damaged enough.

    And I can assume you are completely fine with complete lack of similarity in effort between this scandal and all the others that came before it (i.e. Pat Tillman). I won't accept any of your arguments until you acknowledge that Benghazi is being treated different because the leading Democratic candidate for 2016 is the focus.
    You keep asking me what could have happened as if me or you would have even a 1% clue, none of us know what may or may not happened that's what these reports are for by definition - to avoid this kind of meaningless speculation and finger pointing. I don't pay attention in prior events how many committees and how many reports there were, if this is an anomaly then I understand the frustration. I know there have been many inquiries into the War in Iraq, but I don't know how many committees or reports there were. The fact that the administration is keeping accurate track of how many reports and things of that nature just goes to show they're looking to use this to try to make the GOP look silly, even though either way you look at it this situation is a f*** up of the current administration.

    At the end of the day as I said, if the GOP lead committee has full confidence that all the information is there and this is just to damage some people's names ahead of the elections then shame on those people. Even if this is treated differently than other events in the past, well so what? Does that give the administration justification to be completely opaque here? At what point do we stop saying, well we only investigated us 5 times in this instance while you're now investigating us a 7th time that's two more times than we investigated you? Does that have to happen only when the GOP f***s up? Nearing the end of our lifetime we'll look back and realize how counterproductive and detrimental this stupid politics BS is between Republicans and Democrats as we know them today.

    Just to tie this back to my original issue here, the arguments I've now heard from board members about why this investigation is a bad idea is because A) too much taxpayer dollar, B) administration has more important things to do, and C) no investigations in the past have been treated this way (albeit I think "C" is a valid point). So again, in your mind do any of those 3 reasons trump trying to get down to the bottom of this mess of a situation? There are pros to being forthcoming if there's no wrongdoing, are there not? You're telling me Hillary doesn't want to make Boehner look like a moron?

  5. #110
    Senior Member Nate Colbert 17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department’s Worldwide Security Protection program — well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration’s request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected.
    [GOP vice presidential nominee Paul] Ryan, [Rep. Darrell] Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions. Under Ryan’s budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security.

    I believe the Embassy requested extra security, but was turned down by the State Department.

    Polifact
    Last edited by Nate Colbert 17; 04-24-2015 at 11:16 AM.
    Scott



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  6. #111
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Colbert 17 View Post
    I believe the Embassy requested extra security, but was turned down by the State Department.

    Polifact
    Is the bold being disputed? I was under the impression that it was a fact that extra security was asked for and rejected by the State Department.

  7. #112
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Just as an FYI for the people who said this issue is something only I still care about and everyone else has moved on. Well, those same people (person) are (is) proven wrong yet again..

    https://www.breitbart.com/national-se...investigation/

    Yes, yes the poll was done by the evil Fox News. But notice how 50% of Democrats answered "yes".

    Edit to add Mr. [MENTION=1810]phillyfan0417[/MENTION] since it seems like you may have conveniently missed this. You should keep ****ing on me for not giving you data but when I do, make sure to skip over it.
    Last edited by homerun28aa; 04-24-2015 at 01:09 PM.

  8. #113
    Senior Member Nate Colbert 17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerun28aa View Post
    Is the bold being disputed? I was under the impression that it was a fact that extra security was asked for and rejected by the State Department.

    Yes. It is a fact. I was trying to be polite.

    While this fact can be used as Monday Morning Quarterbacking, which does no one any good, it is important to point out that the State Department was indeed asked for extra security and subsequently turned down the request.

    One of the previous posts tried to spin this as a strictly a Republican problem, and while there is certainly blame to go all around, this fact was overlooked...either by error or intentionally.
    Last edited by Nate Colbert 17; 04-24-2015 at 11:45 AM.
    Scott



    Did your favorite player ever hit 5 home runs in a doubleheader?

  9. #114
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Colbert 17 View Post
    I believe the Embassy requested extra security, but was turned down by the State Department.

    Polifact
    I love the Truth-o-Meter! Green light, TRUE! And Johnson's one statement is correct, which the State Department has said as much. It is leaving out very important questions and details though. No need for all of that nonsense when the sheep eat it up. Thanks Clinton and Obama! The GOP loves to pander to the ignorant of the political structure, easy pickings but it does make me actually wonder if certain leadership even understand it themselves. For if they do understand it themselves, why are they connecting the dots to their own party members of these committees? Where would this rate on the Truth-o-Meter?
    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  10. #115
    Senior Member zach's Avatar
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    They are going to keep releasing any and all information that could discredit her. Like today's news that she pushed Boeing planes on Russia and then received a $900k donation to the Clinton foundation from Boeing following the sale.

  11. #116
    Senior Member hive17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Colbert 17 View Post
    Yes. It is a fact. I was trying to be polite.

    While this fact can be used as Monday Morning Quarterbacking, which does no one any good, it is important to point out that the State Department was indeed asked for extra security and subsequently turned down the request.

    One of the previous posts tried to spin this as a strictly a Republican problem, and while there is certainly blame to go all around, this fact was overlooked...either by error or intentionally.
    If your position, backed up by that Politifact article, is your argument, then I question if you even read the whole thing. You simplified this to the point that "Chris Stevens said 'help' and Hillary Clinton said 'no'."
    "I'm an acquired taste; if you don't like me, you should acquire some taste!"-- Stephen Colbert

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  12. #117
    Senior Member hive17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerun28aa View Post
    You keep asking me what could have happened as if me or you would have even a 1% clue, none of us know what may or may not happened that's what these reports are for by definition - to avoid this kind of meaningless speculation and finger pointing. I don't pay attention in prior events how many committees and how many reports there were, if this is an anomaly then I understand the frustration. I know there have been many inquiries into the War in Iraq, but I don't know how many committees or reports there were. The fact that the administration is keeping accurate track of how many reports and things of that nature just goes to show they're looking to use this to try to make the GOP look silly, even though either way you look at it this situation is a f*** up of the current administration.

    At the end of the day as I said, if the GOP lead committee has full confidence that all the information is there and this is just to damage some people's names ahead of the elections then shame on those people. Even if this is treated differently than other events in the past, well so what? Does that give the administration justification to be completely opaque here? At what point do we stop saying, well we only investigated us 5 times in this instance while you're now investigating us a 7th time that's two more times than we investigated you? Does that have to happen only when the GOP f***s up? Nearing the end of our lifetime we'll look back and realize how counterproductive and detrimental this stupid politics BS is between Republicans and Democrats as we know them today.

    Just to tie this back to my original issue here, the arguments I've now heard from board members about why this investigation is a bad idea is because A) too much taxpayer dollar, B) administration has more important things to do, and C) no investigations in the past have been treated this way (albeit I think "C" is a valid point). So again, in your mind do any of those 3 reasons trump trying to get down to the bottom of this mess of a situation? There are pros to being forthcoming if there's no wrongdoing, are there not? You're telling me Hillary doesn't want to make Boehner look like a moron?
    Asked and answered. That's the bottom line. You ignored my Brown/Wilson analogy because you know that's exactly what this is. You're playing dumb.

    To answer your question, yes, there is a point (and it has been reached) where enough is enough. The only reason people in the public still think there is something is because the Republicans keep LYING to us that there is. I kept hearing about these bombshells that would fall on Benghallary, and they've never amounted to ****.
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  13. #118
    Senior Member Nate Colbert 17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    I love the Truth-o-Meter! Green light, TRUE! And Johnson's one statement is correct, which the State Department has said as much. It is leaving out very important questions and details though. No need for all of that nonsense when the sheep eat it up. Thanks Clinton and Obama! The GOP loves to pander to the ignorant of the political structure, easy pickings but it does make me actually wonder if certain leadership even understand it themselves. For if they do understand it themselves, why are they connecting the dots to their own party members of these committees? Where would this rate on the Truth-o-Meter?

    Polifact is hardly a conservative outlet.

    In your original post, why did you leave the fact that the Embassy asked for extra security and was denied by the State Department?
    Scott



    Did your favorite player ever hit 5 home runs in a doubleheader?

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    They are going to keep releasing any and all information that could discredit her. Like today's news that she pushed Boeing planes on Russia and then received a $900k donation to the Clinton foundation from Boeing following the sale.
    <cough> Halliburton no bid contracts during Iraq war <cough>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Colbert 17 View Post
    Polifact is hardly a conservative outlet.

    In your original post, why did you leave the fact that the Embassy asked for extra security and was denied by the State Department?
    Do you give any fault/credit to the GOP folks who voted to cut funding for embassy security?
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson

    "We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." - Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower

    "I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love." – Willard Romney

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