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Thread: Nine Killed at South Carolina Church

  1. #121
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    It's a shame that some can't accept that there may be a valid opinion that isn't theirs.


  2. #122
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  3. #123
    Senior Member hive17's Avatar
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    No one wants to talk about mental illness until a white guy goes on a racist kill rampage, then they want it ONLY to be about mental illness (and possibly anti-Christian sentiment...).
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  4. #124
    Administrator phillyfan0417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hive17 View Post
    No one wants to talk about mental illness until a white guy goes on a racist kill rampage, then they want it ONLY to be about mental illness (and possibly anti-Christian sentiment...).
    That seems to be a trend.

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  5. #125
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hive17 View Post
    No one wants to talk about mental illness until a white guy goes on a racist kill rampage, then they want it ONLY to be about mental illness (and possibly anti-Christian sentiment...).
    Violent white supremacists are mentally ill, but not the kind of mental illness that makes someone less culpable in the crime from a legal standpoint. I'm also curious though, what's happening post Roof's arrest that makes you think that there is some kind of issue here because he is white? Sure, you have other white supremacists posting disturbing things, but that's no different than after Demetrius Blackwell's arrest where you had some people posting how the cop deserved it because he only suspected Blackwell was armed to begin with because he is black. I see your point about how he was apprehended alive (though in this case he completely surrendered so I don't think this is the best example, but I see the trend), but other than that I don't really see any kind of imbalance.

  6. #126
    Senior Member hive17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerun28aa View Post
    Violent white supremacists are mentally ill, but not the kind of mental illness that makes someone less culpable in the crime from a legal standpoint. I'm also curious though, what's happening post Roof's arrest that makes you think that there is some kind of issue here because he is white? Sure, you have other white supremacists posting disturbing things, but that's no different than after Demetrius Blackwell's arrest where you had some people posting how the cop deserved it because he only suspected Blackwell was armed to begin with because he is black. I see your point about how he was apprehended alive (though in this case he completely surrendered so I don't think this is the best example, but I see the trend), but other than that I don't really see any kind of imbalance.
    Violent white supremacists are no more mentally ill than you or I for thinking that they are sub human and wouldn't feel all that bad if they were wiped off the face of the earth. Roof had a very calculated, cultivated hate. He's not "Adam Lanza" crazy. he's a form of sociopath maybe, but he even admitted that he almost didn't go through with it, rationalizing that the people who brought him into their church with welcome arms maybe didn't deserve to die, but then he rationalized that they did.

    The issue I have is that it seems like certain people in this country want to call this anything OTHER than a race issue, when it clearly is. If I'm going to listen to various arguments about how police-on-black murders aren't always about race, then everyone need to grant that THIS was most definitely about race and it needs to be addressed as such. The move to make this a mental health issue (which rings hollow as people vote to cut that funding) or that this was somehow an attack on Christianity (which rings hollow again, post Sikh Temple shooting), takes the onus away from having to ask questions about WHY do we still have violent racists in this country. It goes both ways too. I don't want to see another "where's the outrage" conservative posting about black people killing white people until we all admit that Roof was a violent racist; that's it.
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  7. #127
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hive17 View Post
    Violent white supremacists are no more mentally ill than you or I for thinking that they are sub human and wouldn't feel all that bad if they were wiped off the face of the earth. Roof had a very calculated, cultivated hate. He's not "Adam Lanza" crazy. he's a form of sociopath maybe, but he even admitted that he almost didn't go through with it, rationalizing that the people who brought him into their church with welcome arms maybe didn't deserve to die, but then he rationalized that they did.

    The issue I have is that it seems like certain people in this country want to call this anything OTHER than a race issue, when it clearly is. If I'm going to listen to various arguments about how police-on-black murders aren't always about race, then everyone need to grant that THIS was most definitely about race and it needs to be addressed as such. The move to make this a mental health issue (which rings hollow as people vote to cut that funding) or that this was somehow an attack on Christianity (which rings hollow again, post Sikh Temple shooting), takes the onus away from having to ask questions about WHY do we still have violent racists in this country. It goes both ways too. I don't want to see another "where's the outrage" conservative posting about black people killing white people until we all admit that Roof was a violent racist; that's it.
    I used the term mental illness very loosely, but the thought that any group of race/ethnicity/religion/sexual orientation/etc on Earth should be killed off because they are inferior is something that would never cross a sane individuals mind. It isn't something he was born with in this case in my opinion, but something that his immediate surroundings and upbringing influenced. Maybe it's even better compared to drugs than to a mental illness, but if you think that any individual is not good enough to be on the same planet as you (literally) you're insane imo and again I don't mean legally insane.

    I haven't seen as much of that as you have my only guess is you're maybe looking too closely at the very traditional and very conservative media outlets. I agree that this was an attack on African Americans, but also perhaps secondarily I don't think the fact that this was an attack on Christianity should be completely dismissed. In terms of the mental health issues being called on I think a lot of it is centered around the fact that you see pictures of Roof and read some of the statements he's made and no one can relate to it it's just kind of crazy when someone who is physically completely normal says those kind of things with a straight, unmoved face. And honestly when you look at those pictures of Roof burning an American flag or pointing a gun at the camera you must at least ask yourself if this person was either born to kill or bound to kill from a very early age.

  8. #128
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Even Glenn Beck is correct once in a while:

    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  9. #129
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Black pain is only heard after forgiveness is afforded to these white perpetrators. Black rage is challenged as inappropriate and unhelpful, while the media and others celebrate the traumatized family members’ ability to respond to this latest heinous crime with compassion and love.
    When black forgiveness is the means for white atonement, it enables white denial about the harms that racist violence creates. When black redemption of white America is prioritized over justice and accountability, there is no chance of truth and reconciliation. It trivializes real black suffering, grief, and the heavy lifting required for any possibility of societal progress.
    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    Black pain is only heard after forgiveness is afforded to these white perpetrators. Black rage is challenged as inappropriate and unhelpful, while the media and others celebrate the traumatized family members’ ability to respond to this latest heinous crime with compassion and love.
    When black forgiveness is the means for white atonement, it enables white denial about the harms that racist violence creates. When black redemption of white America is prioritized over justice and accountability, there is no chance of truth and reconciliation. It trivializes real black suffering, grief, and the heavy lifting required for any possibility of societal progress.
    Yeah, what's wrong with them? The least they could do is a little looting or rioting.
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  11. #131
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  12. #132
    Administrator James52411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
    Black pain is only heard after forgiveness is afforded to these white perpetrators. Black rage is challenged as inappropriate and unhelpful, while the media and others celebrate the traumatized family membersí ability to respond to this latest heinous crime with compassion and love.
    When black forgiveness is the means for white atonement, it enables white denial about the harms that racist violence creates. When black redemption of white America is prioritized over justice and accountability, there is no chance of truth and reconciliation. It trivializes real black suffering, grief, and the heavy lifting required for any possibility of societal progress.
    This is nonsense. Everyone was horrified at the killings. Everyone was amazed at the families offering radical forgiveness because we know that we probably couldn't do it. The murderer's goal was to start a race war. Thank God these Christians acted in accordance with their faith or that piece of trash killer may have gotten exactly what he wanted. The state is going to provide justice and accountability to this killer soon enough. Truth and reconciliation is exactly what was occurring in Charleston this weekend.

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  13. #133
    Senior Member homerun28aa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James52411 View Post
    This is nonsense. Everyone was horrified at the killings. Everyone was amazed at the families offering radical forgiveness because we know that we probably couldn't do it. The murderer's goal was to start a race war. Thank God these Christians acted in accordance with their faith or that piece of trash killer may have gotten exactly what he wanted. The state is going to provide justice and accountability to this killer soon enough. Truth and reconciliation is exactly what was occurring in Charleston this weekend.

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    +1

  14. #134
    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James52411 View Post
    This is nonsense. Everyone was horrified at the killings. Everyone was amazed at the families offering radical forgiveness because we know that we probably couldn't do it. The murderer's goal was to start a race war. Thank God these Christians acted in accordance with their faith or that piece of trash killer may have gotten exactly what he wanted. The state is going to provide justice and accountability to this killer soon enough. Truth and reconciliation is exactly what was occurring in Charleston this weekend.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/postev...white-racists/
    "...it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it."

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by James52411 View Post
    This is nonsense. Everyone was horrified at the killings. Everyone was amazed at the families offering radical forgiveness because we know that we probably couldn't do it. The murderer's goal was to start a race war. Thank God these Christians acted in accordance with their faith or that piece of trash killer may have gotten exactly what he wanted. The state is going to provide justice and accountability to this killer soon enough. Truth and reconciliation is exactly what was occurring in Charleston this weekend.

    Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Freedom Card Board mobile app
    Thanks for being another face of reason............The challenge with WCTYSON's statement is that it is a justification for revengeful behavior for situations when actions of wronged or potential wronged behavior happens. Obviously I cannot walk in the shoes of a black person but I can try to understand a position from a different perspective. Mothers Against Drunk Driving was started due to a death and rage also due to wronged and a lot of good has come from that. Additional violence, looting, rioting and asking for atonement from future generations from previous generations behaviors I believe is not productive to better race relations.

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