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  1. #16
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    Since WCTYSON can't muster the brain power to explain the logic behind denying two brothers to marry or a father & son to marry, does anyone else want to take a shot at explaining why we should deny marriage to people in love?
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    Senior Member WCTYSON's Avatar
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    I imagine now that the gay marriage issue is settled, we won't run into any unintended consequences and that just like the abortion issue, the country will come together and set their differences aside.
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    Let the gays and lesbians marry, they have a right to be miserable like the rest of us!

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    This is going to be good...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennesawsportscards View Post
    And 5 Supreme Court Justices ruling against what the masses are for. SAD< SAD<SAD
    You're actually correct. Some people may point to polls, but every time the gay marriage issue has been put to a popular vote, I believe it has lost every time except for once. Even Prop 8 in CA was voted down. In many states the vote wasn't even close. If the support was really as broad as gay marriage supporters claim they wouldn't have needed to resort to the Federal Government stomping on states rights.

    AL - 81%
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    ID - 63%
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    KY - 75%
    LA - 78%
    MI - 59%
    MO - 72%
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    NC - 61%
    NE - 70%
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    OH - 62%
    OK - 76%
    OR - 57%
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    UT - 66%
    VA - 57%
    WI - 59%
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    Senior Member Lancemountain's Avatar
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    Celebrating in Philly in grand style
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    You're actually correct. Some people may point to polls, but every time the gay marriage issue has been put to a popular vote, I believe it has lost every time except for once. Even Prop 8 in CA was voted down. In many states the vote wasn't even close. If the support was really as broad as gay marriage supporters claim they wouldn't have needed to resort to the Federal Government stomping on states rights.
    I notice you didn't put the years down when those votes took place. Those laws were voted on as early as 1998, mostly in the 2000s, and one (North Carolina) in 2012. And every time it's been put up to a vote the laws have been ruled as unconstitutional. The polling data is from 2014.

    Now, you mention "states' rights," 10th Amendment, and I get that. However, if you look at the text of the Amendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." pay particular attention to the first 11 words. It would be successfully argued that citizens' rights is a power delegated to the US SPECIFICALLY by the Constitution.

    And then there's the matter of the 14th Amendment, Section 1, and equal protection under the law. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    And I know you're going to jump to some slippery slope argument of dads marrying biological daughters or iphones marrying Galaxys, but for once on this board be an adult.
    Last edited by Labratt21; 06-26-2015 at 07:22 PM.
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    The sound coming out of here is deafening. They are celebrating like its V-Day, NYE, Christmas and a new Barbera Streisand album all rolled into one:
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labratt21 View Post
    I notice you didn't put the years down when those votes took place. Those laws were voted on as early as 1998, mostly in the 2000s, and one (North Carolina) in 2012. And every time it's been put up to a vote the laws have been ruled as unconstitutional. The polling data is from 2014.

    Now, you mention "states' rights," 10th Amendment, and I get that. However, if you look at the text of the Amendment, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." pay particular attention to the first 11 words. It would be successfully argued that citizens' rights is a power delegated to the US SPECIFICALLY by the Constitution.

    And then there's the matter of the 14th Amendment, Section 1, and equal protection under the law. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    And I know you're going to jump to some slippery slope argument of dads marrying biological daughters or iphones marrying Galaxys, but for once this board be an adult.
    I guess I'll just respond that if the country was so overwhelming in support of gay marriage, let the people vote. Instead, on back to back days we had the supreme court thumb their nose at the rule of law and representative democracy.

    Once you remove the possibility of genetic problems with siblings marrying and conceiving children, why not let to brothers who love each other get married? Or am I missing something obvious?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    I guess I'll just respond that if the country was so overwhelming in support of gay marriage, let the people vote. Instead, on back to back days we had the supreme court thumb their nose at the rule of law and representative democracy.

    Once you remove the possibility of genetic problems with siblings marrying and conceiving children, why not let to brothers who love each other get married? Or am I missing something obvious?
    So now the majority gets to vote on how the minority is treated? I'm pretty sure that's not America.

    Also, incest is illegal. You have no argument as to why two consenting adults should marry, so you embark on fault arguments and non sequiturs.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hive17 View Post
    So now the majority gets to vote on how the minority is treated? I'm pretty sure that's not America.

    Also, incest is illegal. You have no argument as to why two consenting adults should marry, so you embark on fault arguments and non sequiturs.
    It's perfectly logical. If you are going to redefine marriage so two men can get married by applying this:

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    Why do you want to deprive two brothers or a father and son the same protections as everyone else? I thought SJWs didn't discriminate? Why don't they get equal protection under the law?
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    I guess I'll just respond that if the country was so overwhelming in support of gay marriage, let the people vote. Instead, on back to back days we had the supreme court thumb their nose at the rule of law and representative democracy.
    This would be incorrect since the representatives we elect in a representative democracy can technically overrule SCOTUS by enacting new laws. And, if they so choose, they could try to ratify an amendment to the US Constitution. However, even if that new law were enacted it would still have to go through a judicial review process. Now, 2/3 of Congress can try to pass the new law and then try to get 75% of the states to ratify the amendment, but I doubt that's going to happen. You are free of course to get the ball rolling by contacting your state and federal representative.

    Quote Originally Posted by tpeichel View Post
    Once you remove the possibility of genetic problems with siblings marrying and conceiving children, why not let to brothers who love each other get married? Or am I missing something obvious?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labratt21 View Post
    This would be incorrect since the representatives we elect in a representative democracy can technically overrule SCOTUS by enacting new laws. And, if they so choose, they could try to ratify an amendment to the US Constitution. However, even if that new law were enacted it would still have to go through a judicial review process. Now, 2/3 of Congress can try to pass the new law and then try to get 75% of the states to ratify the amendment, but I doubt that's going to happen. You are free of course to get the ball rolling by contacting your state and federal representative.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
    How is it a false equivalency?
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