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Thread: HOF '18 Results (43%)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadgwynn View Post
    I hope wizard of oz doesnít mean Ozzie Smith. Omar Vizquel is one of if not the best overall non power hitting shortstop to ever play the game. And if Ozzie Smith is in he is automatic. The Hoffman statement makes no sense especially with no player on his team as you said stated. He is most definitely I hall of famer and if he is not in your opinion then he is not because of specialized position. Which means Edgar is NO WAY a hall of famer. You do know before Marino Hoffman was the leader in saves and although he really is borderline the point of the argument was about Edgar. You canít have your cake and eat it to. Edgar yes Hoffman no. Ozzie yes Omar no.

    You may need to do some more research.


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    You just said Omar Vizquel was a better player than Ozzie Smith and I'm the one that needs to do some research? Wow, that's one hell of a bold statement. I'm surprised you can say something like that with a straight face. Vizquel wasn't even a league average bat for his position for his era, much less a good hitting shortstop. Career fWAR? Ozzie 67.6 in ~2,500 games to Vizquel's 42.6 in ~3,000 games. Vizquel played about 20% more games to accrue 67% of Ozzie's value as a player. They're not even remotely close to each other in value. Ozzie was so much better I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

    Jay Witasick was better than Hoffman many years they played together. Heath Bell was a much better pitcher for the last couple years Hoffman was in San Diego. Just because Hoffman got the saves doesn't mean he was the best pitcher in that bullpen. Saves are almost as worthless a stat as pitcher wins. I'm well aware Hoffman was the career saves leader before Rivera. Big whoop. He pitched for 100 years and managers kept throwing him out there for the 9th.

    The war and 20-50 years ago means nothing. Andrew jones is NOT A HALL OF FAMER. Iíd give you 100-1 odds on that I was that strong on Mattingly and was right. Mattingly was was second favorite player growing up and dominated baseball for 5 years but his back blew out and people that that was enough, clearly it wasnít.

    If Andrew Jones is a hall of famer
    So is mark lemke. I mean come on.

    Good luck.
    Lemke accrued a grand total of 7 fWAR in his 11 year career. Andruw Jones had three individual seasons that were better than that. Just because you can't look at the stats and video and realize that Andruw Jones is the greatest defensive centerfielder of all time, and it isn't close, doesn't mean he's Mark Lemke.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewer Andy View Post
    I feel like Chipper would get the least of the three mentioned. I think his induction was a forgone conclusion comparatively. He is more identifiable to a large fan base but heís also the least likable of the three so that evens that out in my mind. Always interesting to watch and find out either way


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    I get your point but chipper is the card that will go up because of popularity. The other two are niche player collectors and no one will buy their cards just to have one. On the other hand chipper or brave fans will jump in. Just my opinion.


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  3. #33
    Senior Member michaelstepper's Avatar
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    everyone's going to disagree with another's choice. let's not result to insulting eachother.

    I don't believe Omar or andruw are HOF. but we all know lesser players are already in.
    "Avoid the clap" - Jimmy Dugan

  4. #34
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    I try not to use people who are already in the hall influence my thoughts on who should go in. I look at someone like Vizquel as an electric defender, best of his generation to my eye, but I wouldn't vote for him, his bat might as well have gone to a pitcher most of the time.
    Jones for me is a harder decision, amazing defender, much better than Vizquel with the stick though. To me he is not, I understand the argument. He doesn't have to be Willie Mays to make it, but for me he is just not an all time great.

  5. #35
    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstanwood View Post
    I try not to use people who are already in the hall influence my thoughts on who should go in. I look at someone like Vizquel as an electric defender, best of his generation to my eye, but I wouldn't vote for him, his bat might as well have gone to a pitcher most of the time.
    Jones for me is a harder decision, amazing defender, much better than Vizquel with the stick though. To me he is not, I understand the argument. He doesn't have to be Willie Mays to make it, but for me he is just not an all time great.
    Andruw Jones was one of those potential all-time greats who did not age well. The moment he turned 30, left the Braves & packed on a ton of weight his career took a turn for the worst. Even as a Braves player in his 20's he never really hit for average or put up a good OBP but his power & defense were legit enough to get him there if he followed that similar trajectory throughout his 30's. But instead he ate too many cheeseburgers, couldn't make contact, beat up women & ended up in Japan.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelstepper View Post
    everyone's going to disagree with another's choice. let's not result to insulting eachother.

    I don't believe Omar or andruw are HOF. but we all know lesser players are already in.
    Listen my opinion is my opinion as others thereís no insults here. The insults are people like you butting in and putting your voice in weíre it donít belong. Then you make a weak effort about the subject. Everyoneís going to disagree with otherís choice. (Really, thatís a bright statement), mind your business. Have an opinion or stay out of my business and choices as well
    As others.

    Itís a forum with excitement without being live with the person. Itís fun.

    Again mind your business. What are you a mediator.


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  7. #37
    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstanwood View Post
    I look at someone like Vizquel as an electric defender, best of his generation to my eye, but I wouldn't vote for him, his bat might as well have gone to a pitcher most of the time.
    I think you and others underestimate the hitter Vizquel was. He was a .272 lifetime hitter, not .240 like people assume.
    He hit .333 one year and he was 123 hits short of 3,000.

    Yes, I know those 2,877 hits were largely a result of him playing forever, but every player with more lifetime hits than Vizquel is either a Hall of Famer, not eligible (Rose) not eligible yet (Jeter, Ichiro, Beltre) or a steroid user (Bonds, ARod, Palmeiro). That's extremely impressive.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member michaelstepper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadgwynn View Post
    Listen my opinion is my opinion as others there’s no insults here. The insults are people like you butting in and putting your voice in we’re it don’t belong. Then you make a weak effort about the subject. Everyone’s going to disagree with other’s choice. (Really, that’s a bright statement), mind your business. Have an opinion or stay out of my business and choices as well
    As others.

    It’s a forum with excitement without being live with the person. It’s fun.

    Again mind your business. What are you a mediator.


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    I didn't call anyone out, specifically you. wtf is the problem.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member alexs64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadgwynn View Post
    Listen my opinion is my opinion as others there’s no insults here. The insults are people like you butting in and putting your voice in we’re it don’t belong. Then you make a weak effort about the subject. Everyone’s going to disagree with other’s choice. (Really, that’s a bright statement), mind your business. Have an opinion or stay out of my business and choices as well
    As others.

    It’s a forum with excitement without being live with the person. It’s fun.

    Again mind your business. What are you a mediator.


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    Shut up, stupid.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    If Jim Edmonds was knocked out on his first try, the Hall of Fame voters shouldnít even be allowed to include Andruw Jones on their ballot.

    Edmonds > Jones in every way.





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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    If Jim Edmonds was knocked out on his first try, the Hall of Fame voters shouldn’t even be allowed to include Andruw Jones on their ballot.

    Edmonds > Jones in every way.
    I agree Edmonds should have gotten way more attention on the ballot, that is still confusing to me. Im not as convinced he's that much better than Jones though.

    For one more thought on Vizquel and anyone who thinks he should be a HOFer, was he ever, in 24 years the best shortstop in the league? He was also never even a serious MVP candidate. I can't think of a year he was the best player on his team. He was a good defensive player for a very long time but not a hall of famer

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexs64 View Post
    Shut up, stupid.
    Another moron butting in you shut up loser


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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadgwynn View Post
    Another moron butting in you shut up loser


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    With no opinion on topic. Go back to school please


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  14. #44
    Senior Member MrMet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadgwynn View Post
    Listen my opinion is my opinion as others thereís no insults here. The insults are people like you butting in and putting your voice in weíre it donít belong. Then you make a weak effort about the subject. Everyoneís going to disagree with otherís choice. (Really, thatís a bright statement), mind your business. Have an opinion or stay out of my business and choices as well
    As others.

    Itís a forum with excitement without being live with the person. Itís fun.

    Again mind your business. What are you a mediator.


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    So telling people to mind their business on an open forum isnít an insult? Saying there are no insults here and then telling him to butt out and saying his voice doesnít belong isnít an insult? Saying he made a weak effort isnít an insult?

    Your post right here is why you have no credibility and are a discredit to these boards.


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  15. #45
    Senior Member Therion's Avatar
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    I know people don't like Schilling's personality, but I don't understand how he isn't automatic.

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