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Thread: Jason Werth says "super nerds" are killing baseball.

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    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    Jason Werth says "super nerds" are killing baseball.

    Do you agree with Werth? I do a little bit.

    ESPN -- August 8, 2018
    Jayson Werth, who said he was "done" with professional baseball in June, has this advice for front-office types who use sabermetrics to determine the paths of franchises: It doesn't compute.

    "They've got all these super nerds, as I call them, in the front office that know nothing about baseball but they like to project numbers and project players," Werth told the Howard Eskin Podcast for 94 WIP in Philadelphia.

    "... I think it's killing the game. It's to the point where just put computers out there. Just put laptops and what have you, just put them out there and let them play. We don't even need to go out there anymore. It's a joke."

    Werth, 39, had a 15-year career, mostly with the Washington Nationals and Philadelphia Phillies.

    "When they come down, these kids from MIT or Stanford or Harvard, wherever they're from, they've never played baseball in their life," Werth told Eskin. "When they come down to talk about stuff like [shifts] ... should I just bunt it over there? They're like, 'No, don't do that. We don't want you to do that. We want you to hit a homer.' It's just not baseball to me.

    "We're creating something that's not fun to watch. It's boring. You're turning players into robots. They've taken the human element out of the game."

    Werth, known for his long hair, big beard and aggressive style during his playing career, is not the first to launch a verbal assault at baseball "nerds." Hall of Famer Goose Gossage ranted against the same thing in 2016.

    "It is a joke," Gossage said then. "The game is becoming a freaking joke because of the nerds who are running it. I'll tell you what has happened, these guys played rotisserie baseball at Harvard or wherever the f--- they went, and they thought they figured the f---ing game out. They don't know s---."
    Set builder, autograph hunter and fan of the Texas Rangers & '50s-'60s Yankees

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    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    I donít have a problem with analytics and front offices using all the information available to try and better their franchise.

    Analytics arenít ruining the game and making it less fun to watch, a the commissioner actually CHANGING the gameplay is whatís making it less fun to watch, in my opinion.





    Resident Yadier Molina, and Pro Wrestling super fan.

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    Senior Member JVHaste's Avatar
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    I have to agree with SM that the real negative changes are from the commish and the GMs are just thinking about the game with better data.

    It doesn't have to affect the fan much at all (just don't look into SABR stats and enjoy the game) but who it does effect is bums like Jayson Werth. The "X person hasn't had Y job so they succeed at the GM level" is a bit goofy but it doesn't surprise me from him. What he forgot to mention was that a lot of teams are still aloof to modern baseball math. . . like the one who gave him a final shot this year. He was a Mendoza level player on offense and a Manny Ramirez level player on defense.

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    Senior Member JVHaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVHaste View Post
    Manny Ramirez level player on defense.
    ps, I don't even know if this part is true, but its fun to imagine a Mendoza/Ramirez hybrid.

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    Senior Member Super Mario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JVHaste View Post
    I have to agree with SM that the real negative changes are from the commish and the GMs are just thinking about the game with better data.

    It doesn't have to affect the fan much at all (just don't look into SABR stats and enjoy the game) but who it does effect is bums like Jayson Werth. The "X person hasn't had Y job so they succeed at the GM level" is a bit goofy but it doesn't surprise me from him. What he forgot to mention was that a lot of teams are still aloof to modern baseball math. . . like the one who gave him a final shot this year. He was a Mendoza level player on offense and a Manny Ramirez level player on defense.
    That beard tho, bro.





    Resident Yadier Molina, and Pro Wrestling super fan.

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    Senior Member JVHaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
    That beard tho, bro.
    Born on a mountain, raised in a cave...
    Data collecting and mathematics is not all that he craves. . .


    As for my beard I don't go any of that shaping BS. . . a beard should be a pile of garbage that hangs off your face!

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    Senior Member AnthonyCorona's Avatar
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    Werth doesn't seem old enough to be get off my lawn guy, but here we are

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
    Please note: Card collecting is my hobby, not my life. I don't take it that serious and like to keep it fun.

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    I agree that sabermetrics are beneficial in terms of identifying talent that the "eye test" may have missed (determining spin rate, WAR, UZR) to name a few, but Werth is right to a degree. The thinking has altered. For example, in the minors I've see a man start off on second base due to this new extra inning rule. There are no outs. The #8 hitter who's batting under the Mendoza line swings for the fences. Why not bunt? Oh that's right...the computer says otherwise. I've seen less stolen bases. Almost no safety or suicide squeezes. I've seen way to many players slide into bases improperly and get hurt as a result. Instead of teaching players the fundamentals, they teach launch angle.

    I don't think it's the fault of front offices, entirely. There is so much data available and teams are behind the 8 ball in understanding which sabermetrics are good and which ones are harmful. This could also be Werth barking up the "They aced me out" tree, but both sides of this debate have valid arguments.

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    Senior Member Pinbreaker's Avatar
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    Yes, the dip**** nerds have ruined baseball for the old guys like me..

    They have taken strategy out of baseball and turned it into a video game..

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    Senior Member joey12508's Avatar
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    all or nothing at bats, strikeouts are ok. it is getting boring sometimes.

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    Trouble with the Curve Part II starring Jayson Werth
    Look, I'm gonna be honest with you. I really need a job. And I will take any position, as long as it doesn't involve having sex with old ladies for money or bear traps. Those are my two bugaboos. While mulling over my resume feel free to check out my baseball card collection, it's small and simple, kinda like me - >>>>> http://s822.photobucket.com/user/JDf...ds%20n%20stuff


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    Werth is just butt hurt because advanced stats killed his career. They exploited his weaknesses as a player, and it drove him out of the game. A lot of players are suffering from them still - Chris Davis anyone? If players can't make the adjustments at the big league level, they don't deserve to be there.

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    Senior Member Jaypers's Avatar
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    Werth went to HS just minutes from where I live. And on behalf of both my geographical location and the school system here in central Illinois.....









    .......he's a f***ing moron.
    J.P.

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    Senior Member JVHaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joey12508 View Post
    all or nothing at bats, strikeouts are ok. it is getting boring sometimes.
    I agree that it gets boring but it put this 100% on the commissioners office. They are the ones who accepted proposals to move in the fences at pitchers parks like Safeco and Petco, they also approve dimensions of new parks. They are the ones who also do the incredibly soft drug program.... everything points to MLB wanting more dingers.


    Making an all or nothing offense is possible now, but could you imagine trying this 30-40 years ago? Would turn out very bad.

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    Senior Member Therion's Avatar
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    My issue is the assumption that nerds don't get baseball. Maybe, and I'm being crazy here, Jason Werth doesn't get baseball. I mean, sure, he knows how to hit a baseball. But if he doesn't see that having more information gives your team a better shot at winning, then he doesn't understand baseball.

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