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What will be the outcome within the hobby with all this PSA, BGS, PWCC/consignor fraud?

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Joey_peapod

Active member
Jan 27, 2014
687
30
As someone said above Blowout wears me out! I put myself in the middle of the Black Label scandal post but quickly gave up because all do is beat a dead horse.

As someone else said above, the first card ever graded by psa was trimmed. My opinion is most don’t care if it’s done professionally. If it’s so good it can’t be detected then what are they going to to do? They would have to employ a team of people to research every past sale and double times to properly research serial numbered cards which they very well might do or employ new age scan technologies to grade along with humans.

Another post mentioned the art world and how it’s an accepted but usually disclosed process. If anyone thinks this hasn’t been going on since a baseball card was first sold for a profit is naive.
 

chris19978

Active member
Aug 30, 2011
978
25
As someone said above Blowout wears me out! I put myself in the middle of the Black Label scandal post but quickly gave up because all do is beat a dead horse.

As someone else said above, the first card ever graded by psa was trimmed. My opinion is most don’t care if it’s done professionally. If it’s so good it can’t be detected then what are they going to to do? They would have to employ a team of people to research every past sale and double times to properly research serial numbered cards which they very well might do or employ new age scan technologies to grade along with humans.

Another post mentioned the art world and how it’s an accepted but usually disclosed process. If anyone thinks this hasn’t been going on since a baseball card was first sold for a profit is naive.

One thing I noticed reading blowout was just people agreeing. The cards he showed as evidence who’s to say they didn’t have 2 copies not the same as the one earlier this year with the numbered cards and showing the difference with the before looking better. As long as money is coming in people will try to alter cards. I personally hate getting cards graded something I rarely do. I don’t see PWCC going anywhere and it will blow over they will just be more careful. As what was mentioned the Altered Wagner has been selling for millions and people know it’s been altered. I am pretty sure people have PSA in their pocket an get a grade bump wouldn’t surprise me like if a card would grade a 9 but the person knows the grader gives a 10. My biggest complaint with PSA is not showing sub grades almost as they might be hiding a flaw to help the graders like PWCC who grade a ton every year. I don’t see how they can notice when a card is altered, Ian confident they knew just got paid a little more to give a grade rather than an altered grade.


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joey12508

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2008
38,453
16,111
Winterfell
Gifs don’t work on the app?!?!


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SqxDDnB.gif
 

death2redemptions

New member
Feb 4, 2016
12,488
0
The Carolina on the Southern side

Pfft....anyone could get banned from BO once...that's child play. Three-time losers, under the same screen name (not those fools who sign up under new screen names is disguise) like me are the true OG's of Blowout fails & a rare breed indeed... :rolleyes:

I wasn't aware the OP's question was actually about a recent affair and the one thing I miss about BO are those drama filled scammer threads that exceed 50+ pages. Tell me Mr. Corona, is it worth the read? If so....link please!!! :D I hate lurking around on there...I might ask to be reinstated again if I do. Just want the good stuff :cool:
 

chris19978

Active member
Aug 30, 2011
978
25
Pfft....anyone could get banned from BO once...that's child play. Three-time losers, under the same screen name (not those fools who sign up under new screen names is disguise) like me are the true OG's of Blowout fails & a rare breed indeed... :rolleyes:

I wasn't aware the OP's question was actually about a recent affair and the one thing I miss about BO are those drama filled scammer threads that exceed 50+ pages. Tell me Mr. Corona, is it worth the read? If so....link please!!! :D I hate lurking around on there...I might ask to be reinstated again if I do. Just want the good stuff :cool:

It had a lot of agreeing and drama to me. Honestly he could prove his innocence if he were to show he had 2 copies of the card as these were all older cards that went from one grade or condition to another but it could be 2 different cards though I believe they were altered how do they know these cards were bought by PWCC under a different name and how can you prove this was them buying it other than say these are PWCC names I didn’t see evidence showing they were names used by them.


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gradedeflator

Active member
Mar 31, 2011
1,388
17
I hope everyone who done something dirty here gets caught. Moser and PWCC and Betsy and PSA if they were in the know.
 

chris19978

Active member
Aug 30, 2011
978
25
I hope everyone who done something dirty here gets caught. Moser and PWCC and Betsy and PSA if they were in the know.

Yeah it’s why I don’t grade often mostly PC items I am keeping if I have a double will grade both and sell the lower grade. The problem is once you start seeing big money such as the 1993 SP Jeter raw gets around &250 and a PSA 10 gets $100k people will try to get the money. The buyers can be blamed in some part as there putting up the crazy money to buy that card and a person looking to make a quick buck will do everything in his or her power to alter the card to make big money. The grading companies need to be more strong ant as for card size might fix some of the issues. ButI don’t understand how someone can alter other ways without the grading company noticing.


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finestkind

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2008
3,986
901
Massachusetts
PWCC will go away, along with Moser and Betsy. Jail time ? Too early to tell. PSA looks complicit now. I hope law enforcement grabs them all. Too many people like graded cards for PSA to totally go away.
 
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chris19978

Active member
Aug 30, 2011
978
25
I don’t think nothing will happen it will be business as usual in a month for all people the only one who might do jail time which I doubt will be the guy altering cards but there is no law that he has broken. People have jobs that fix pictures and artwork that has been damaged this is pretty much the same. I don’t like the idea but it will make me second guess any graded card I buy.


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Pjere

Member
Jun 2, 2019
59
15
What is PWCC’s proven involvement exactly? I buy from them often and consign through them consistently. Am I to be concerned for real or can I just go on ignorantly doing what has worked (or not so much worked for actual profit) for me buying and selling?


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chris19978

Active member
Aug 30, 2011
978
25
What is PWCC’s proven involvement exactly? I buy from them often and consign through them consistently. Am I to be concerned for real or can I just go on ignorantly doing what has worked (or not so much worked for actual profit) for me buying and selling?


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Well that’s my point what I seen is vintage cards cards in one condition being bought and a different condition being sold though the claim says he bought using a different account altered the card and sold with a higher grade. What I read it’s more speculations than proof of wrong doing. The fact SSIguy was blatant than PWCC and nothing has happened to him tells me this will just be remembered by some and forgotten by others


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Pjere

Member
Jun 2, 2019
59
15
Well that’s my point what I seen is vintage cards cards in one condition being bought and a different condition being sold though the claim says he bought using a different account altered the card and sold with a higher grade. What I read it’s more speculations than proof of wrong doing. The fact SSIguy was blatant than PWCC and nothing has happened to him tells me this will just be remembered by some and forgotten by others


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Yea, it seems a bit over reacted to but at the same time it does raise the concern that my cart full of graded and ungraded card’s waiting to be purchased from pwcc may have cards that aren’t legit?!
I do not want to downplay people’s concerns but also don’t want to get worked up on someone else’s theory and accusations.
There do seem to be a lot of games played in this industry and it makes me a bit sad that it probably all happened when I was buying as a kid with my dad. Was that Jordan rookie that we bought in 1988 legit? Are my 1955 mays and 1968 Mantles that I bought as a kid with my dad legit or trimmed? Who is to know?
Someone also made a point of buying a car and restoring it to it’s best original condition. I know it won’t be a popular comparison but I like the point. As long as the card is only trimmed to the original size if it was slightly oversized like a lot of modern heritage cards are, is this a bad thing or a restorative thing?
I don’t know what to do with all of this and am not passionate enough to care so I will just continue on in my ignorance I suppose:)



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chris19978

Active member
Aug 30, 2011
978
25
Yea, it seems a bit over reacted to but at the same time it does raise the concern that my cart full of graded and ungraded card’s waiting to be purchased from pwcc may have cards that aren’t legit?!
I do not want to downplay people’s concerns but also don’t want to get worked up on someone else’s theory and accusations.
There do seem to be a lot of games played in this industry and it makes me a bit sad that it probably all happened when I was buying as a kid with my dad. Was that Jordan rookie that we bought in 1988 legit? Are my 1955 mays and 1968 Mantles that I bought as a kid with my dad legit or trimmed? Who is to know?
Someone also made a point of buying a car and restoring it to it’s best original condition. I know it won’t be a popular comparison but I like the point. As long as the card is only trimmed to the original size if it was slightly oversized like a lot of modern heritage cards are, is this a bad thing or a restorative thing?
I don’t know what to do with all of this and am not passionate enough to care so I will just continue on in my ignorance I suppose:)



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I just think they are saying someone is guilty before all the evidence is shown. BlowOut has many people over reacting last I knew PWCC was based in the USA and they should be innocent till proven guilty by the courts not some person who might have a grudge finding 5 auctions they have out of 4000 and finding faults. I posted quite a bit there today can’t wait to see people’s responses.


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Scartchy18

New member
May 21, 2013
24
2
Well, guilty is guilty. Fraud needs to be dealt with. As far as shills, although I don't buy many cards anymore (I still look all the time, just that what I want either doesn't exist or is too pricey) when I did go into bids I always had my limit. No matter the item I'd pick my limit and set my bid, and if I got beat so what? I wasn't interested in overspending and certainly not going to be baited by shills. Once I lost, and the dealer IMed me in a week and asked if I still wanted it, since 'the top bidder wouldn't pay'. I refused, I didn't trust the messenger.
 

banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
2,540
883
Lafayette, Colorado
Guys, how can anyone read that PWCC thread - and others on BO - and still walk away saying "well I'm still not sure" or "the evidence isn't in"? Knowingly selling altered cards as un-altered is fraud, and the BO guys have shown conclusively that PWCC has repeatedly done this. And in doing so, they have received premiums on these sales that they would not have otherwise received.

About shilling, I agree that simply placing your max bid and letting it ride is a clean and simple way to approach auctions. But shill bidding is a crime, and I'm not OK being taken advantage of by shillers. Basically, it boils down to theft. If a seller outbids you on his own item, ultimately he has stolen something that would otherwise have been yours. And worse, if the seller outbids you but then retracts his bid at the last second, leaving you in the lurch to pay your max bid, he is trying to steal money from you that you would not have otherwise paid.
 

banjar

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2015
2,540
883
Lafayette, Colorado
Actually not all of these BO threads is a slam dunk. I recall one where the OP lists a couple cards and then says well, because of the history of these people, we can assume these cards are part of their racket. The mod and some other members basically jumped all over him for that one.
 

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