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Thread: C.C. Sabathia gets 250th career win.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Austin's Avatar
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    C.C. Sabathia gets 250th career win.

    Sabathia is now only the 14th pitcher in baseball history with both 250 wins and 3,000 strikeouts.
    Every other pitcher with those stats is in the Hall of Fame, except Clemens.

    Even though his milestones have largely been the result of longevity and innings instead of seasonal domination, HOF voters can't deny he's in elite company with those stats.
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    Senior Member death2redemptions's Avatar
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    I really never even thought of Sabathia as a Hall of Famer at any point during his career. He just never appeared to be one of the best but the moment he reached 3,000 strikeouts he pretty much became a shoe-in. It's sort of like reaching 3,000 hits, maybe it was simply due to having a really long career (which is actually an accomplishment in it's own right) but regardless it's a milestone number and any player deserves respect for reaching it.

    The wins are nice too but I really don't put much stock into that stat.
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    Member mrmopar's Avatar
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    I am not sure why longevity is given an asterisk when it comes to discussions like this. The dominating players who rack up the highest of the primary stats in a short time span are either long gone to a different era of the game or one in a million these days. It takes skills to get there for everyone AND some level of longevity for most. Still, looking deeper, longevity does benefit some more than others.

    Look at a guy like Warren Spahn, who seems to get such little credit for an amazing career. He had a lengthy 21 year career, but also lost 3 prime years to the War. In turn, he hung around what some might see as an extra 2 years to age 44 with less than stellar results after winning 23 games at age 42! Those extra years didn't help him a great deal, but he was still amazing as a 40+ year old. He also had 13 20+ W seasons across his prime years. When you think how great Spahn was, also remember he lost 245 games too! You are never going to see a pitching career like his again with the way the game is played now.

    In comparison, Mike Mussina had a slightly shorter (18 year) career and was very consistent, yet was never quite able to reach that magical 20 wins in a year until his last season. In the end, he pitched in 200+ fewer games than Spahn with only 3 less years of service. When you look at their 162 game averages, Spahn was 17-12 and Mussina was 17-10. I am not sure how those numbers are so close (ask baseball-reference how they are calculated), given Spahn was 363-245 in 21 years and Mussina was 270-153 in 18 years. 200+ more games and nearly 100 more wins. Wow! If you just divide wins by years played, Mussina was at 15, but Spahn was at 17.25. Still, give Mussina 3 more years and he doesn't win 100 more but he definitely hits 300 wins and is a no brainer HOFer.

    Adding Sabathia to this comparison, his 162 game average is 15-10, but his wins/years nets him 13.67 (excluding 2019). Definitely a notch lower and his year to year stats reflect this in his inconsistancy, with the last 6 years pulling his numbers way down. By the way, neither Spahn or Mussina broke 3000 Ks in their careers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Sabathia is now only the 14th pitcher in baseball history with both 250 wins and 3,000 strikeouts.
    Every other pitcher with those stats is in the Hall of Fame, except Clemens.

    Even though his milestones have largely been the result of longevity and innings instead of seasonal domination, HOF voters can't deny he's in elite company with those stats.

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    Member banjar's Avatar
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    I think he's probably a HOF'er, possibly first ballot but second or third for sure.

    I suppose he's kind of a stat compiler but to compile those stats you don't just have to play for a long time, you have to be good for a long time. You can't have a Jamie Quirk type career (18 years and 0.7 WAR).

    Wins aren't worth as much to voters as they used to be, but they still count, and with the way the game has changed 250 is just about as impressive as 300 used to be. But probably the stat that will put him over the top is 3000K. Only 17 guys have done this, and only 6 of them have a higher strikeout rate than his 0.86/inning. So that's not just stat compiling, it's consistently overmatching big league hitters.

    Oh and he also has a Cy Young, an ALCS MVP, and a WS ring.
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    I've spent the majority of his career disliking him for one reason or another but he's got the numbers of a hall of famer. Whether it's the first or tenth try I don't think it matters much, trying to separate the best this game has ever seen by who got in which year is foolish to me.

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