Manny, Ortiz, Sheffield Hall of Fame

tpeichel · Mar 30, 2020

500+ HR was always a lock for the HOF, but now we have some players that have passed that threshold, but aren't in.

555 - Manny Ramirez
541 - David Ortiz
509 - Gary Sheffield

Manny was definitely the best hitter of the three. Ortiz performed best in the post-season and had the best peak years, though I think Sheffield was an overall better hitter than Ortiz . Eventually, I think all three get in.

That will leave McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro as the only members in the 500+ Club not in the Hall, assuming Pujols is inducted. (Side note, any chance Pujols gets to 700 HR, currently 656?)

MrMet · Mar 30, 2020

Not sure where you’re going with this, but I think we all know why they haven’t gotten in...

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tpeichel · Mar 30, 2020

MrMet said:
Not sure where you’re going with this, but I think we all know why they haven’t gotten in...

Sent from my iPhone using Freedom Card Board mobile app

It won't be much of a thread if everyone agrees they are all getting in. In the Fielder thread, someone had commented that Ortiz had a better chance than Fielder, that's what got me thinking about 500+ HR being a lock and the status of these three.

MrMet · Mar 30, 2020

I think the specter of PEDs has more to do with it than 500HRs

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banjar · Mar 30, 2020

Honestly, I think all of them will get in eventually. And by eventually I mean sometime between now and the end of time. It may not be for a long time, and some of them might not live to see it. But they were all too good at baseball to be left out forever. Also you forgot A-Roid. He'll get in too.

sportscardtheory · Mar 31, 2020

Ortiz isn't even eligible yet and will probably get in on his 1st ballot.

fordman · Mar 31, 2020

Ortiz is a lock.

Sheffield and Manny might get in on Veteran's vote.

Fordman

JVHaste · Mar 31, 2020

banjar said:
Honestly, I think all of them will get in eventually. And by eventually I mean sometime between now and the end of time. It may not be for a long time, and some of them might not live to see it. But they were all too good at baseball to be left out forever. Also you forgot A-Roid. He'll get in too.

Yeah, if we are letting in roiders it would make sense to do the elite one first... Aroid, Barry Bonds, Roger Clams, etc etc.

For those who forget Sheffield was involved in BALCO, Manny and Big Roidi were on the Mitchell Report.

WizardofOz1982 · Apr 1, 2020

JVHaste said:
Yeah, if we are letting in roiders it would make sense to do the elite one first... Aroid, Barry Bonds, Roger Clams, etc etc.

For those who forget Sheffield was involved in BALCO, Manny and Big Roidi were on the Mitchell Report.

Neither Manny Ramirez nor David Ortiz were listed in the Mitchell Report. Sheffield was due to his connections with BALCO. Ramirez of course failed testing after testing was put in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_named_in_the_Mitchell_Report

bstanwood · Apr 1, 2020

Forget the Mitchell report...Manny tested positive twice...screw him. Sheffield, I could be wrong, admitted to using "the clear" and "the cream" from BALCO.
Perhaps I'm holding onto a grudge that isn't worth holding but I'm not ready to vote guys into the hall of fame that have tested positive or who admitted using it.
Ortiz to me is different, it was only suspicion, to me that's not enough to keep him out of the hall of fame. Having said that and being a loyal Red Sox fan my whole life I still wouldn't vote for him. I have a severe disdain for the DH. Maybe it's not his fault, it is a position and he didn't write the line up but he was made into a one dimensional player. He is certainly tied to some amazing moments and was tremendous at times but I have a hard time saying someone who so rarely put on a fielder's glove can be one of the best ever.

moxacaine · Apr 1, 2020

bstanwood said:
Forget the Mitchell report...Manny tested positive twice...screw him. Sheffield, I could be wrong, admitted to using "the clear" and "the cream" from BALCO.
Perhaps I'm holding onto a grudge that isn't worth holding but I'm not ready to vote guys into the hall of fame that have tested positive or who admitted using it.
Ortiz to me is different, it was only suspicion, to me that's not enough to keep him out of the hall of fame. Having said that and being a loyal Red Sox fan my whole life I still wouldn't vote for him. I have a severe disdain for the DH. Maybe it's not his fault, it is a position and he didn't write the line up but he was made into a one dimensional player. He is certainly tied to some amazing moments and was tremendous at times but I have a hard time saying someone who so rarely put on a fielder's glove can be one of the best ever.

pretty sure Ortiz had a failed test. but he will likely get in just because people don't care with him for some reason.

JVHaste · Apr 1, 2020

WizardofOz1982 said:
Neither Manny Ramirez nor David Ortiz were listed in the Mitchell Report. Sheffield was due to his connections with BALCO. Ramirez of course failed testing after testing was put in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_named_in_the_Mitchell_Report

Yeah, its getting confusing who was on the original list, because it seems there are conflicting lists and someone is changing things around. . . .

Bleacherreport's list seems to have some wrong names, or they are referring to something else entirely.

There is something Ortiz was popped for because there's a trail or stories about him trying to defend being on a list. . .

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/...ked-because-too-many-yankees-tested-positive/

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2016/09/red_sox_david_ortiz_opens_up_about_2003_positive_p.html

I guess he could be referring to a non Mitchell Report list from 03 but I don't recall any other lists back then.

As for Ramirez I remember the time he was popped for Estrogen, that was amazing. :lol:

bstanwood · Apr 1, 2020

Ortiz was never suspended. I don't remember if he was on the Mitchell report or not. I think it was the NY Times that leaked his name, I believe that is what he has been defending himself against.
Either way, he's a no go for me. Still a great sports figure in Boston though. His speech after the Boston Marathon bombing still gives me chills.

banjar · Apr 2, 2020

I think Manny should get in just because of that Pacific corked bat card

JVHaste · Apr 2, 2020

banjar said:
I think Manny should get in just because of that Pacific corked bat card

Or what about the Pinnacle Inside Can of him fielding and looking confused? When I bought was it was at random and I was glad to get his... good memories of him cutting off the cutoff man Damn. :lol:

banjar · Apr 2, 2020

Yeah. Kind of a dunderhead. But man that guy could rake.

joey12508 · Apr 4, 2020

fordman said:
Ortiz is a lock.

Sheffield and Manny might get in on Veteran's vote.

Fordman

the arod should be as well

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Manny, Ortiz, Sheffield Hall of Fame

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