Which long time closers are future HOF members?

sportscardtheory said:

Does anyone know which relievers are in the Hall? Mariano Rivera is a shoe-in. The ones I know off-hand:

Dennis Eckersley (reliever/starter)
Bruce Sutter
Rich "Goose" Gossage

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Hoyt Wilhelm also.

For closers to be elected - it is going to be Rivera and Hoffman, and then no one else for a long time. Lee Smith, as much as I loved watching him growing up, falls just short as he was good for a long time but never dominant. The one guy on the original list that should be in but probably never will get the call is Dan Quisenberry. He was every bit as dominant as Bruce Sutter for the same period of time, minus the strikeouts. I can't figure out how Sutter got all of the support he received and Quiz was left out.

I was gonna vote Jose Canseco, but I guess he's not a "long time" closer.

cvn66 said:

sportscardtheory said:

Does anyone know which relievers are in the Hall? Mariano Rivera is a shoe-in. The ones I know off-hand:

Dennis Eckersley (reliever/starter)
Bruce Sutter
Rich "Goose" Gossage

Click to expand...

Hoyt Wilhelm also.

For closers to be elected - it is going to be Rivera and Hoffman, and then no one else for a long time. Lee Smith, as much as I loved watching him growing up, falls just short as he was good for a long time but never dominant. The one guy on the original list that should be in but probably never will get the call is Dan Quisenberry. He was every bit as dominant as Bruce Sutter for the same period of time, minus the strikeouts. I can't figure out how Sutter got all of the support he received and Quiz was left out.

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^^That will answer your question on Quisenberry....plus the team a player plays on as well as Accolades play a part in the HOF as well..both of which Sutter had.

I see it as these 3 are the only ones right now that have a shot...

Rivera
Hoffman
Lee Smith

I think for sure Rivera and Hoffman get in, Smith is a maybe...but it will hurt him the most with the players from the late 80s and early 90s that have retired and are becoming eligble for the HOF that are certain locks..


TK

cvn66 said:

sportscardtheory said:

Does anyone know which relievers are in the Hall? Mariano Rivera is a shoe-in. The ones I know off-hand:

Dennis Eckersley (reliever/starter)
Bruce Sutter
Rich "Goose" Gossage

Click to expand...

Hoyt Wilhelm also.

For closers to be elected - it is going to be Rivera and Hoffman, and then no one else for a long time. Lee Smith, as much as I loved watching him growing up, falls just short as he was good for a long time but never dominant. The one guy on the original list that should be in but probably never will get the call is Dan Quisenberry. He was every bit as dominant as Bruce Sutter for the same period of time, minus the strikeouts. I can't figure out how Sutter got all of the support he received and Quiz was left out.

Click to expand...

That is easy, Bruce Sutter player for the Cardinals for some years. There are FAR to many Cardinals in the Hall of Fame. Don't know if half of the writers are from St Louis, but for some reason mediocre Cards get in.

bodiaz said:

cvn66 said:

sportscardtheory said:

Does anyone know which relievers are in the Hall? Mariano Rivera is a shoe-in. The ones I know off-hand:

Dennis Eckersley (reliever/starter)
Bruce Sutter
Rich "Goose" Gossage

Click to expand...

Hoyt Wilhelm also.

For closers to be elected - it is going to be Rivera and Hoffman, and then no one else for a long time. Lee Smith, as much as I loved watching him growing up, falls just short as he was good for a long time but never dominant. The one guy on the original list that should be in but probably never will get the call is Dan Quisenberry. He was every bit as dominant as Bruce Sutter for the same period of time, minus the strikeouts. I can't figure out how Sutter got all of the support he received and Quiz was left out.

Click to expand...

That is easy, Bruce Sutter player for the Cardinals for some years. There are FAR to many Cardinals in the Hall of Fame. Don't know if half of the writers are from St Louis, but for some reason mediocre Cards get in.

Click to expand...

So do mediocre Yankees and Dodgers....there is a good reason for that....popularity and championships........those always will help a players chances for getting into the HOF....

I believe that Rivera and Hoffman both deserve the HOF but the role of a relief pitcher/closer has changed so much that it is very difficult to compare eras. Back in the 70’s and 80’s when Sutter and Gossage came into the game it was the 7th inning sometimes and they finished the game. These guys were dominant and that is why they are both in; Sutter was unhittable with his split finger and Gossage was simply the most feared pitcher in the game. Their save numbers may not be impressive by today’s gaudy numbers but their pitching was very impressive.

Mozzie22 said:

I believe that Rivera and Hoffman both deserve the HOF but the role of a relief pitcher/closer has changed so much that it is very difficult to compare eras. Back in the 70’s and 80’s when Sutter and Gossage came into the game it was the 7th inning sometimes and they finished the game. These guys were dominant and that is why they are both in; Sutter was unhittable with his split finger and Gossage was simply the most feared pitcher in the game. Their save numbers may not be impressive by today’s gaudy numbers but their pitching was very impressive.

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That's what a lot of people don't understand. Voters vote for players that dominated their peers WHILE they were playing. Stats don't necessarily come into play all the time. Guys like Gossage, Sutter and Jim Rice were some of the best players in the game during their careers. Their numbers aren't as gaudy by today's standards, but the competition was thinner in the late '70s and '80s. These guys were some of the best THEN.

There are five "relief" pitchers in the HOF:

Wilhelm (the first)
Rollie Fingers (never saw his name in this post)
Eckersley (the reason the floodgates opened in recent years)
Sutter
Gossage

With Eck, he was a starting pitcher (and a decent one at that...before all of his personal troubles started). It was when LaRussa converted him to a closer that he became he force he did. And he left for the Athletics from...the Cubs.

Before Sutter was a dominating Cardinals closer, he was an even more dominating Cubs closer. When he figured out how to pitch the split finger, he somehow was lights out for the Cubs in the late 70's.

For Goose, I'm going to go with longevity as to why he's in. He had some good years (with the Yanks for example) and some bad years (with the Cubs for example).

I see guys like Lee Smith getting in eventually, if not from the writers, but possibly the VC. Of the crop you listed (Mo not withstanding), I see Hoffman going in and that could be it for a very long time.

The better question should be...

Does anybody see a "middle" reliever getting into the Hall of Fame??? A guy who was never the closer, not good enough for the starting rotation, just your middle relief workhorse? Anyone of them getting into the Hall? Ever?

bdj610 said:

Does anybody see a "middle" reliever getting into the Hall of Fame??? A guy who was never the closer, not good enough for the starting rotation, just your middle relief workhorse? Anyone of them getting into the Hall? Ever?

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Does the best 8th place hitter in baseball history get into the HOF? If you were stuck as a middle reliever for your career, it means you weren't good enough to be a starter or a closer. No matter how good you were in your lesser role, it doesn't negate that fact.

I am a little surprised no one has mentioned John Franco:

1,119 career games pitched - NL record, 3rd all time
424 saves, 4th all time, most by a left hander
2.89 ERA

Postseason record: 2-0, one save, 1.88 ERA in 15 postseason appearances

4x All Star
2x NL Rolaids Relief Man of the year

I feel Franco does deserve to be in the Hall

bdj610 said:

Rollie Fingers (never saw his name in this post)

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THANK you! WTF, he only won the Cy Young AND the MVP as a closer...

I think Hoffman gets in. Way too many saves, situational stat notwithstanding, finished second in Cy Young voting twice, and his best comp is Rivera.

None of the others do. Lee Smith may have led the league in saves a bunch but no one in their right mind would argue he was the best relief pitcher of the era.

I know that Smoltz was not a closer for long, but if Eck can get in on a good starter, great closer does Smoltz get in with the same reasoning?

pitt23 said:

I think Hoffman gets in. Way too many saves, situational stat notwithstanding, finished second in Cy Young voting twice, and his best comp is Rivera.

None of the others do. Lee Smith may have led the league in saves a bunch but no one in their right mind would argue he was the best relief pitcher of the era.

I know that Smoltz was not a closer for long, but if Eck can get in on a good starter, great closer does Smoltz get in with the same reasoning?

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Smoltz very likely gets in for his "whole" pitching resume....200+ wins, 3000k's and 3-4 great years as a closer. He also missed some serious time due to injury and has bounced back several times.

K-Rod has some very impressive numbers and is still only 27

sportscardtheory said:

Does anyone know which relievers are in the Hall? Mariano Rivera is a shoe-in. The ones I know off-hand:

Dennis Eckersley (reliever/starter)
Bruce Sutter
Rich "Goose" Gossage

Click to expand...

R-O-L-L-I-E

BrewerSuperCollector said:

sportscardtheory said:

Does anyone know which relievers are in the Hall? Mariano Rivera is a shoe-in. The ones I know off-hand:

Dennis Eckersley (reliever/starter)
Bruce Sutter
Rich "Goose" Gossage

Click to expand...

R-O-L-L-I-E

Click to expand...

also, forgot Hoyt Wilhelm