Is Mark McGwire a future Hall of Famer?

To me Sosa gets in eventually. The Guy Takes 2 years off after the 05 season comes back in 07 hit 21 dingers to push his total Hr to 609. He was the only one that Had the guts to come back after all the drama. Raffy gets a positive and never comes back, Clemens gets accused, and even though he was a question mark, you know he wanted to come back for one more season and decided to call it quits (kinda) because of the drama, then there is Bonds who wanted to come back but no one would take him. I mean people wanted Sammy more than Bonds . IMO Sammy somewhat redemmed himself interms of fans and baseball. In 05 I thought he was done and look guilty as heck but then comes back and showed us he had a little something left. Now I dont know if its true but It was reported that he want to come back this season. For a guy who is in the steriod scandal and the corked bat thing, he has a lot of guts for comming back and I like that about him. I know Guts doesnt get you to the hall but 609 Homers should and maybe more if they give him another shot. Just my take on things.

PS. I think McGwire should get in steriods or not because he brought me and probably hundreds of thousands back to baseball in that season him and Sosa went off for the homerun record. For better or worse that single season really brought baseball back!!!

Pete14Rose said:

Well said!

I don't believe any of them will get in. And I don't feel any of them should get in.

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do you think pete rose should get in?

I heard a prominent baseball insider argue against McGwire's candidacy in 2001 (before the steroid issue came to the forefront) because of the fact that he was a one dimensional player. Of course, players already in the HOF tend to have stringent standards for the HOF.

Mighty Bombjack said:

I heard a prominent baseball insider argue against McGwire's candidacy in 2001 (before the steroid issue came to the forefront) because of the fact that he was a one dimensional player. Of course, players already in the HOF tend to have stringent standards for the HOF.

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in big mac's defense, he did win a gold glove

I haven't read this whole thread, and I'm not going to get into semantics, but if it were my call, Mac would get in before any of the other 3...him first or none at all. My reasons are purely personal.

Mighty Bombjack said:

I heard a prominent baseball insider argue against McGwire's candidacy in 2001 (before the steroid issue came to the forefront) because of the fact that he was a one dimensional player. Of course, players already in the HOF tend to have stringent standards for the HOF.

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if you put Phil Rizzuto and Ozzie Smith in the HOF for there 1 dimension, FIELDING, then Mark McGwire's 583 HR's should put him in there as well. THat is without the steroids issuse.

And yes Pete Rose should be in the HOF as well Nellie Fox and Gil Hodges and Jim Rice.

Big Mac McGwire said:

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":e6qv6i6l]I heard a prominent baseball insider argue against McGwire's candidacy in 2001 (before the steroid issue came to the forefront) because of the fact that he was a one dimensional player. Of course, players already in the HOF tend to have stringent standards for the HOF.

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if you put Phil Rizzuto and Ozzie Smith in the HOF for there 1 dimension, FIELDING, then Mark McGwire's 583 HR's should put him in there as well. THat is without the steroids issuse.

And yes Pete Rose should be in the HOF as well Nellie Fox and Gil Hodges and Jim Rice.[/quote:e6qv6i6l]

i agree they should all get in. my comment is people who dont think so because they say he cheated. but essentially pete rose cheated also. if they feel he should be, then they should feel the same about the rest. i say they all deserve to be in

I don't know the background, but Pete Rose will never get in, correct?

gomatt said:

I don't know the background, but Pete Rose will never get in, correct?

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i think, and would love to know if im wrong, but i think he can get in if the commish re-instates him.

abncollectsautos said:

gomatt said:

I don't know the background, but Pete Rose will never get in, correct?

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i think, and would love to know if im wrong, but i think he can get in if the commish re-instates him.

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Correct, the commish could re-instate him, and then it would be up to the voters.

Mighty Bombjack said:

abncollectsautos said:

gomatt said:

I don't know the background, but Pete Rose will never get in, correct?

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i think, and would love to know if im wrong, but i think he can get in if the commish re-instates him.

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Correct, the commish could re-instate him, and then it would be up to the voters.

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so he could just go on the normal ballot?

My question does come back to the fact that I have a Mark McGwire 1985 Topps Tiffany BGS 9. I'm considering selling it, but if he's got a decent shot at the Hall, I'll probably keep it.

gomatt said:

My question does come back to the fact that I have a Mark McGwire 1985 Topps Tiffany BGS 9. I'm considering selling it, but if he's got a decent shot at the Hall, I'll probably keep it.

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i would keep it man, he is getting in

Well would you like a career .263 Hitter with less then 1700 hits and 1414 RBIs in the Hall of Fame. McGwire was a great HR hitter and one can argue that his HR chase with Sosa helped save Baseball when it was at its lowest due to the strike but I can't see letting McGwire into the hall. The whole Steroid issue also brings up the arguement that his numbers are a reflection of his use. I will be pissed if he gets in and McGriff doesnt.

shanks25 said:

fengzhang said:

gomatt said:

Will it happen? I'm most interested in McGwire, but obviously this answer affects Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens.

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I think there is a difference b/w McGwire/Sosa and Bonds/Clemens. McGwire's legacy was built on homeruns. His 1998 season and his HR/AB ratio were the most distinguishing aspects of his HOF case. Steroids would essentially call into question the legitimacy of those stats.

Bonds and Clemens were already on "greatest ever" lists before they took steroids. If they would've received 95% of the vote w/o steroids and 15% of the baseball writers decide not to vote for them b/c they took steroids, they will still end up with 80% of the vote, good enough for induction. McGwire and Sosa were going to receive a lower % of the vote regardless of steroids or corked bats so that 15% might just push them below 75% total vote. Those are just arbitrary numbers but you get the point.

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I see your point but keep in mind that McGwire set the rookie HR record at 49. based on his appearance, it's hard to say he was on roids in 1987. You insinuate that McGwires only HOF-worthy attributes are because of home runs and steroids negate that......but he was an incredible hitter when his career began.....

I'm biased b/c Mac has always been my hero. I don't know if he will or will not but I pray that he does get in someday.

One other thing sets McGwire apart in my mind. This has no caliber on whether he should get in or should not but McGwire is vastly different than the other 3 (Sosa, Clemens, and Bonds). McGwire was, and still is, a decent guy, great teammate, good person. He has integrity......

The other three all have had questions in their character. Bonds......well, he's Bonds. Clemens was never prasied as the best teammate......and the bat throwing incident. Sammy was beloved by the fans until the cork incident and later him leaving the field early and then lying about it.

mac has always been a class act......that why I've always liked him. His charity work is incredible......he's done incredible stuff for abused children....


OK, now you can flame away......

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The issue is that there will be more voters who won't vote Sosa and McGwire into the Hall, not because they took steroids, but because they don't think they're HOFers in the first place. No one has gotten 100% of the vote, not Babe Ruth, not Tony Gwynn. There will be a certain percentage of baseball writers who will flat out refuse to vote for Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, or Clemens. But, there will be another group of writers (who don't care about steroids) who are on the fence about McGwire and Sosa about their on-the-field contributions alone. That's why McGwire and Sosa will find it much harder to get into the Hall of Fame than Bonds or Clemens.

As for Pete Rose, there's no way he'll get in before any of these guys lol He's the only one that actually broke a baseball rule (and a well-established baseball rule at that). Did he learn nothing from Shoeless Joe? He has the 100% iron-clad official baseball sanction preventing him from getting into the HOF.

No one has actually proven that Bonds used steroids after they were formally banned by baseball in 2003. Right now, we have him guilty of breaking a federal law and possibly committing perjury. Neither offense warrants any official action by the MLB. The only thing that'll prevent Bonds or Clemens from getting in on their first try would be the unofficial punishment imposed by the baseball writers.

elemin8 said:

Well would you like a career .263 Hitter with less then 1700 hits and 1414 RBIs in the Hall of Fame. McGwire was a great HR hitter and one can argue that his HR chase with Sosa helped save Baseball when it was at its lowest due to the strike but I can't see letting McGwire into the hall. The whole Steroid issue also brings up the arguement that his numbers are a reflection of his use. I will be pissed if he gets in and McGriff doesnt.

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mcgwire deserves to be in on his 583 alone. i also think mcgriff deserves to be in

Is there demand for the card right now? I think McGwire has to wait a while before he can get in, but a change of heart by the voters [at any given year as long as McGwire is still eligible to be on the ballot] may make the card something to sell then.

gomatt said:

My question does come back to the fact that I have a Mark McGwire 1985 Topps Tiffany BGS 9. I'm considering selling it, but if he's got a decent shot at the Hall, I'll probably keep it.

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He is a HOF with his 583 home runs, but how he got to that total is where we all are at this point.

I thought McGriff was one of the most disappointing players in the late 1990s because he didn't have the year-to-year stats other players were putting up. He was decent, but not spectacular.

One reason to speculate is McGriff may have chosen to stay clean as opposed to rampantly juicing up like many of his peers had supposedly done.

elemin8 said:

Well would you like a career .263 Hitter with less then 1700 hits and 1414 RBIs in the Hall of Fame. McGwire was a great HR hitter and one can argue that his HR chase with Sosa helped save Baseball when it was at its lowest due to the strike but I can't see letting McGwire into the hall. The whole Steroid issue also brings up the arguement that his numbers are a reflection of his use. I will be pissed if he gets in and McGriff doesnt.

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abncollectsautos said:

Pete14Rose said:

Well said!

I don't believe any of them will get in. And I don't feel any of them should get in.

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do you think pete rose should get in?

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I'll never stop being amused by how many people want to discuss steroids and the "Big 4" (Sosa, Mac, Rocket, Bonds) and then they go and throw Rose's name in the pile. :lol:

So, let's get this out of the way now. Yes, I feel Rose should be in the HOF. No, Rose was never accused of taking steroids. Yes, Rose gambled/bet on the game. Apples and oranges...all day, every day.

By taking steroids players personally cheat to make themselves better than the average player(s) they are competing against.

Rose managed the Reds from 1984-89, a span of 786 games, leading the Reds to a 412-373 record. I am sure he could have done a lot worse had he been "throwing" games.

Unless someone is foolish enough to believe Rose was purposely throwing games, his gambling was nothing more than a personal addiction..along the lines of Billy Martin's alcoholism. The difference is that betting is not allowed in baseball. Rose broke a MLB law and is paying the price.


With all of that being said, he still broke a MLB rule. He was banned for life and that's that. Perhaps he'll be inducted posthumously, perhaps not. Him not being in the HOF doesn't ruin anything for me as a fan. He STILL is one of the gretaest hitters to play the game, he STILL is the all-time hits leader and he will ALWAYS be "Charlie Hustle" - one the only players, in my opinion, who gave his all on the field every play, every game.



In summation -

Rose and his betting = Apples

McGwire/Sosa/Clemens/Bonds/Raffy and their juicing = Oranges

Big Mac McGwire said:

[quote="Mighty Bombjack":2vxtgszd]I heard a prominent baseball insider argue against McGwire's candidacy in 2001 (before the steroid issue came to the forefront) because of the fact that he was a one dimensional player. Of course, players already in the HOF tend to have stringent standards for the HOF.

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if you put Phil Rizzuto and Ozzie Smith in the HOF for there 1 dimension, FIELDING, then Mark McGwire's 583 HR's should put him in there as well. THat is without the steroids issuse.

And yes Pete Rose should be in the HOF as well Nellie Fox and Gil Hodges and Jim Rice.[/quote:2vxtgszd]

Rizzuto doesn't belong in the HOF.

Smith is near or at the all-time list of defenders at arguably the most important defensive position (barring the catcher), as well as being a beloved person who back-flipped at opportune times. McGwire was not a great hitter, but near or at the top of the list of all-time power hitters. He was also beloved for several reasons, 1998 being the foremost. So, he should probably be in if steroids is not an issue. Now, we could argue the relative value to a team of having a dominant defender play every pitch at shortstop versus a masher hit a bomb every few games...